M
Hello!
SA
Hi! So nice to be with you here today. How are you feeling?
M
Thank you, likewise. I’m feeling a little hazy after a weekend spent in the desert, but very much looking forward to our chat.
SA
I hope the dessert brought with it some nourishment and wishing you rest post today’s interview. Where in the world are you right now?
M
Nourishment in many ways. I’m based in LA (Santa Monica) at the moment, I relocated here from Melbourne in September. From one lockdown to another, it seems.
SA
I relocated from NYC to Sydney in September. It has felt like switching universes almost. Can you tell me a little bit about how you arrived at A—SPACE and your practice as someone who is rooted in a path of wellness?
M
This makes me slightly homesick 🙂 A—SPACE was the meditation company I founded in 2015 in Melbourne, along with a friend of mine. At the time it was Australia’s first drop-in meditation studio. It was a lovely, quaint studio we opened up maxing out two credit cards with nothing but a dream and some audacity. My partner left in 2018 and carried on with the company. I was exploring taking the A—SPACE online via an app, until 2020 happened and my investors who were based in NYC were fearful of the impact COVID was having on the world. Sometime after that partnership fell through, a friend of mine introduced me to Raed, the CEO of Open, which was at that time a small breathwork and yoga studio in SF. I initially began advising Open and supporting the launch of their digital platform, but Raed and I quickly struck up a friendship and realised we were trying to achieve the same thing – a mindfulness company that was accessible, equitable and built for the world, today.
SA
What a journey. Accessibility and equitability is something Fariha and I think about daily. If the ‘sustainability’ of a holistic health and wellness structure must be rooted in anti capitalism and pro liberatory frameworks, what does a business structure based on integrity and ethics look like to you?
M
It’s difficult to articulate and even more difficult to execute. We are a venture backed company, A—SPACE was not. What we could never do with A—SPACE we can now do with Open, this includes paying our teachers a worthwhile salary, support causes we care about, create space for those that have been marginalized and offer our product at an acceptable price point. Beyond that building a company with two other men of colour and a diverse representation of teachers was (and is) important to us.
SA
One of the biggest challenges for us at Studio Ānanda is understanding how we can continue to make work we believe in without being burnt out due to a lack of resources, so I appreciate your honesty. I think it’s a lifelong learning experience.
I want to pivot to an interview I read with you a few months ago that was released on In Bed. There was a part of the interview where you brought up the physical effects that surfaced while you were working in marketing and finance. How did you navigate that and do you believe the career path you were on was physically impacting you?
M
It’s hard to make a generalization about the career path I was on – what didn’t work for me, works for millions of other people. My nervous system couldn’t handle the rigours of the work, the conditions in which I found myself in as well as the lifestyle it brought with it. My health became impacted firstly through chronic insomnia, then high level stress and anxiety followed by a whole host of other mental and physical ailments. Would I have been able to handle it if I knew how to take care of my mind? Who knows, hindsight is wonderfully nauseating. I do know that the way we have been conditioned to view our lives through work can take its toll, in some way shape or form.
SA
How have you been centering your nervous system in the past year?
M
Wow, what a year to prioritize it. To be honest, I have struggled tremendously. I sold one company and launched into a new project, juggled a long distance relationship with the anxiety of trying to obtain a visa to the US + working remotely. I also wrote my first book, Still Together – Finding Connection Through Meditation (while I was disconnected from everyone) so…
That’s a long winded way of telling you I allowed myself to fall apart. I’m very good at holding things together, I did this for others in my personal and professional life but rarely do I give myself the grace to break down. I figured a global pandemic was an opportune time to do so.
SA
I feel that even in giving ourselves that space to completely let go, we can learn so much about what we need and how to take care of ourselves.
M
Yes. Last year felt like a year of collective trauma. Old wounds were exposed and our usual ways of self-soothing and tending were taken away. As a man, the narrative about being strong for the world around me was stripped away and I allowed my heart to break, which it did multiple times. Allowing myself to grieve and be held by the earth and the wisdom of my teachers and one sage therapist was the best gift I could have given myself. The breakdown was perhaps long overdue.
SA
On giving ourselves gifts, what are some ways you honour your own body, your physical vessel?
M
I lean on my elders and I remember my ancestors. I remember their wisdom in my practice. I also honour the fact that I am a human before I’m a teacher or father. I’ve learned over the year to give myself a break and offer it tenderness and compassion. Above all there is permission to feel my anger and my sadness, two things that were wrapped in a lot of shame historically. I also remind myself that meditation isn’t a solution to what I’m experiencing, it’s usually a wonderful preventative but when strong emotions arise, I simply have to experience them. Crying has helped, alot. Dancing, breathing and simply lying down on the ground with a hand over my belly and heart has felt tremendously healing at times.
SA
As a father, what are some of the key ways you are teaching the importance of expressing both anger and sadness?
M
I teach my daughter that her feelings are valid and that there are no good and bad feelings. These are states that arise through causes and conditions. Our contemporary view on emotions and feelings will have us believing that we can purchase a product that will eradicate ‘bad feelings’ however this is rarely true. Expressing feelings can be as simple as identifying where in the body the feeling is and sometimes, allowing ourselves to lose control—without creating a narrative around it . Suppressed anger – which is what I have been navigating, is wholesome to the outside world, you are seen as a good boy for being polite. However the toll this can take on your mind and body cannot be underestimated. I tell my daughter to trust her feelings and be OK with making mistakes. It doesn’t make her a bad person, it makes her human.
SA
That teaching of locating, identifying and accepting is so simple yet so revolutionary and transformative. I like to imagine what effects an education system built on those teachings could have for the next generations. What gives you hope to continue the work that you do?
M
What gives me hope in general is the next generation. My daughter and her friends are growing up in a world where they see the destructive nature of greed, aggression competition and want something else. I see a generation motivated by empathy and softness, gendreless, open, curious and engaged. I genuinely believe they will save us. The next generation will carry this work and innovate it, make it more accessible to more people and hopefully bring some depth to the word wellness. Suffering has never been more rampant than it is now, the ability many of us have to liberate from that and to create the conditions for the future generations is what motivates me. Also the reclaiming of Black, brown and indigenous bodies + these practices is exciting to see.
SA
Beautiful. What are a few rituals you go back to stay grounded?
M
Tsoknyi rinpoche teaches a practice called . It’s a meeting of our body with a hand of awareness and the hand of compassion. In this practice we spend a few minutes sitting with our body and noticing what is present, usually what wounds are present (sadness, anger etc.) and we spend time tending to it. This practice has been tremendously healing for me, daily. I also love to spend time in a bathtub, as long as I can, usually watching a documentary or dharma talk.
Born and raised in the Theravada Buddhist tradition, is an animated speaker, humble teacher and always a friend. Once tethered to a life of self-management, instead of self-awareness, he now intimately understands what it means to be healed from the inside out. Through mindfulness and meditation, Manoj has helped thousands of people around the world trade mania for pause, so that they may live fearlessly in honour of a happier and more meaningful life.