SA
Annika, I’m so happy I get to speak to you today!
A
I’m so excitedddddd :))) Love y’alls work and just really hype to be a part of this!
SA
Can you describe your energy right now in 5 words?
A
Hmmm….floating, cognizant, shifting, open, dancing
SA
I feel honoured that I get to float and be open with you today. I was so struck by one of your recent on the notion of communal dreaming, and how you so eloquently articulated the importance of making space to dream and to dream together. I grew up in Australia in an abusive household. From the ages of 15 – 20, every night before I went to bed I would dream about living in New York. When I was 22, I moved to Brooklyn which was the start of a more intentional healing journey for me. The idea that a radical imagination can set us free is something I hold so close to my heart as it was my very experience. When did you start thinking about the importance of dreaming? And can you speak more to dreaming as a way to sway against escapism?
A
Mmm…all of this. Thank you for sharing that with me. I’m also very much in the same space – that radical imagination is something that sets us free. I’ve always been a very dreamy, introverted person. I would say my dreaming began out of child wonder, but as I grew older, it became a coping mechanism. I grew up across Palo Alto, CA the suburbs of Sacramento, CA, and Portland, OR – all very white spaces, where I was often one of the only Black people in the class. And that led to loneliness and isolation. Dreaming was a way that I could move out of the space that I was in. Out of that curiosity, I started reading more works by Black authors, and started seeing and absorbing the work of people like Octavia Butler, artists and theorists that were dreaming of worlds that existed outside of white imagination. That started to water the seeds that dreaming was something beyond what we might conceive of as individualist retreat. I started to think of dreaming that could pull me towards other people – and to create something outside of what we’ve been given by colonial ways of thinking. For me, over the past years, I’ve moved towards this idea of communal dreaming. Dreaming has always been a space from which I’ve imagined new ways of being, for myself and those around me, but when I keep those dreams to myself, they only remain in the corners of my imagination. As someone that’s struggled with recurring depression for years, I often go inward, and my dreams collect beside me. When I began talking about my dreams with my loved ones, with my friends and homies, they often reminded me, “That is a beautiful dream, and we can make it true. It can be true, I believe in this, we could support and build this together.” I was able to move away from the escapism that my dreaming can sometimes lead to by talking about it with others, from holding an intimate space for dreaming with others.
SA
The ways that our colonist conditioning has squashed our childlike capacity to be imaginative is, I think, a very real and intentional violence. It’s so incredible that you have been able to foster a space to speak a lot of what you are dreaming about into existence. And I think there is so much to say about the science behind things like manifestation. There is a general cynicism I’ve observed, though, when it comes to manifesting and dreaming, do you think that is another symptom of the structures that we occupy and an internalization of a conceived loss of power?
A
Yes, absolutely. I would say that we have to even think about what we think of as dreaming being something we have to intentionally question, to think about how dreaming may be conceived through a colonial white imagination. Why is it in so many circles, dreaming is thought of as frivolous, individualistic, escapist? As something that is running from reality? I think that’s something that a colonial white imagination is trying to teach us, that dreaming means a rejection of what is, of logic, normality. When so much of dreaming stretches far beyond it. I wonder about how dreaming has been commodified, like we’ve seen in some cases of self care. Self care is a radical practice, that’s been articulated by so many Black, queer, disabled, trans and women communities as something that is critical. Over time, self care has been commodified into green smoothies and bath bombs. I think about how that has happened to dreaming. To conceive as dreaming as an escape is to reject its roots, which is in imagining outside of the confines we’ve been handed. Dreaming is a way to think of new spaces to create, grow in love in, take care of each other in. It can be a way that we can create power, redefine what power is. I think we all just need to think about the ways we define what dreaming is, if we’ve ever conceived of what is meant to dream alongside others.
SA
“The American dream” comes to mind. The colonial ways in which we’re encouraged to dream and imagine but still within a structure, still only to maintain the status quo.
So, essentially, you’re encouraging a type of imagining the world that pushes back on this hierarchies, reorganizes and resees. I want to uplift this as something sooooooo subversive. Especially in a place like America, where routine is encouraged and spirituality is considered as this abstract thing – imagination really sets the foundations for a way of being in the world that completely goes against the grain.
How can we move from dreaming in a way that’s immaterial to materializing the wonders that we imagine? How do we make sure that communal dreaming is not an abstract, intangible action but something that drives real solutions?
A
This is such a beautiful question. I’m mulling over it, because it’s popping off so many thoughts for me.
I have multiple answers to this. I think one part is in recognizing that dreaming can come from spaces of lushness, pleasure, and wonder. Dreaming can also come from spaces of deep grief, and deep rage. I think about what Octavia Butler said about dreaming. She said dreaming is a way “to give warning when we see ourselves drifting in dangerous directions.” I think one part of moving communal dreaming away from the abstract is holding the multiple realities that dreaming can come from. That makes me think on how we are actually creating spaces to dream. Are we showing up for each other to provide the care that gives us the capacity to dream? What gives us the freedom to even dream about realities beyond what we’re currently in, and can that be a space to explore communal care? I think dreaming is very, very in hand with providing care for one another. For making sure our needs are met so that we feel safe, and in giving space to be emotionally and spiritually valued and heard. I’d ask us to think about how we’re creating actions to support each other’s capacity to dream, and spaces to share dreams. That can happen through many different facets. A book critique with one another is space to dream, making dinner for a friend is creating space to dream, creating gardens, creating mutual aid organizations to support our communities. If dreaming is to move towards action, then we need to care for each other in ways that even allow that dream to be said.
SA
My heart is so full! I’m thinking of prayer circles and about something as simple as a dream circle. It’s such an easy yet subversive practice and you’re right, it does involve a lot of intentionality and care.
How do we encourage those around us to be active dreamers without coming off as people with their heads in the clouds? The phrase “dream a little” can be so hard to even imagine as people who have been so conditioned to not push past the corners of their own imaginations.
A
I think meditating on dreaming as a form of action, as a method of study. I think encouraging each other to see those who have shown dreaming is a form of action. Octavia Butler, Audre Lorde, Alice Walker, Marsha P. Johnson, are all Black artists, theorists, activists, that refer to dreaming as a way to move past the constraints they’ve been given. They all then showed up to their dreams with action, by creating art, supporting their communities, providing critique, leading movements.
I also think it’s important to note that dreaming can be thought of in terms of radical societal shifts. It can also be held as the transformation of ourselves, our relationships. We can think of dreaming as our own capacity to change. It was a dream, of a younger me, to be able to write, to explore and hold my queerness. And over time, that came true. With support from other dreamers, friends, around me.
I think we really need to sit with, and show up for, what we mean when we say radical dreaming, what other activists, artists, and theorists have meant when they say that. Often-times, I see ‘radical’ placed in front of a phrase (compassion, community, tenderness, etc.), without explanation or example of what is inherently radical about it. I think dreaming has shown itself to be radical across time to shift the entire world, through policies, relationships, collectives, by showing up through action. I think to be an active dreamer requires a responsibility to think of how dreaming has been used radically in the past, and how dreaming can show up with real action.
SA
One of my favorite quotes is by Arundhati Roy where she writes…. “Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”
Thank you, Annika. So much of what you shared is really helping me imagine and conceptualize tangible ways of being in the world and creating new worlds. And I absolutely agree that it is important to name and explain, because another tactic of the status quo is to not provide those explanations so to keep things abstract and unreachable.
As we come to an end, I want to ask you, what are some key resources, be it audio, visual, texts, that have really helped you foster and nourish the move towards communal dreaming? You’ve listed brilliant Black writers and theorists, I’m wondering if there are other specific pieces of art that you hold close in this practice?
A
Thank you so much Prinita for this conversation. Heart is feeling so full.
There are sooo many dreamers that have inspired me to think and imagine new worlds.
The music of , , , people that are creating entirely new worlds and soundscapes through their music. I’m also currently reading Glitch Feminism, by Legacy Russell, who brilliantly is exploring the ways that the digital creates room to explore expansive identities. The Care Manifesto, by the Care Collective, is a brilliant piece that really has us consider the political movement behind caring for one another. I also love the artwork of Teresa Chromati, and Tschabalala Self, who make new worlds out of their pieces. Activation Residency, a Black trans led residency that holds respite for revolution retreats. There are endless others, but those are some spaces where I’m being nourished to dream.