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Decolonizing the Wellness Industry with Tony Pham

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Hi Tony! How are you doing today?

T
I’m just wrapping up work for my “traditional” job so transitioning out of that “work mode.”

SA
Oh yes, I feel that big time. I also am just ending the day with my ‘job that pays the bills’. What are some ways you ease into that transition?

T
I find it helpful to have markers to delineate beginnings and endings. I find that a lot of folks are having challenges with blurred lines/lack of boundaries with all the working from home during the pandemic. As much as I can, I like to go for a walk around my neighborhood at the end of the work day.

SA
I am definitely learning how to be better at establishing my boundaries with work, it’s so easy, especially while on our devices, to be constantly plugged in. And particularly, I’m finding it increasingly exhausting, as someone who uses social media a lot for work, to be online at a time where there is such an overload of content that requires deep emotional engagement. As a practitioner of meditation, what advice might you have for folks online who are feeling drained by this content overload – particularly, folks who are looking to online spaces for education? 

T
I can relate to the temptation to “zone out” and watch an hour, or two, or more of Netflix at the end of the day. Like junk food though, that doesn’t really serve. Neither does reading 10 articles that all say variations of how we don’t know anymore about the pandemic than we did yesterday. Let’s all give ourselves more permission to unplug and not feel obligated to always be wired. Moving our bodies, whether with exercise, stretching, or walking is a helpful tool for grounding in ourselves. That said, the internet is a powerful tool, and there are ways to utilize it with mindfulness. For folks who are seeking online resources for education and growth, I recommend curating by looking to authentic and credible practitioners (I follow different people depending on if I want to learn about meditation or social justice or the intersection of the two). For example, I study with Arinna Weisman and Lama Rod Owens who both teach with a perspective that there is no true liberation until all beings are liberated. That resonates with me.

SA
It really is amazing how technology has the potential and power to increase our ability as humans to be mindful. When I began my own healing journey, I was heavily reliant on guided meditation apps that allowed me to tap into the present moment. I soon realized that, meditation can be a dissociative space that doesn’t allow for evolution or growth if not accompanied by a more holistic approach to healing. At the start of the pandemic, it was very interesting, and troubling to observe a collective anxiety wrap our community. Understandable, of course at the beginning when we were left with no answers or support from the state, one thing that was coming up a lot for me was how many folks who are committed to participating in the wellness industry, succumbed to this anxiety completely. I began to think more about wellness as it has been sold to us as a self serving tool that teaches us to put up with uncomfortable situations in the moment, but does not foster a sustainable healing experience. What thoughts might you have about this and the commodification of wellness as a whole? 

T
While I rationally understand the commodification of wellness given that we live in a capitalist construct, I don’t believe that is the only approach. The more we look to make meditation or other “wellness” practices into products, the further we get from the real awakening and healing that is the birthright of all beings. Part of my calling to offer and guide meditation is that it is ultimately free. It doesn’t require any equipment. Yes, apps and teachers are helpful. Anyone can practice meditation without having a penny in their pocket. 

When we talk about commodification, I don’t see it in a silo. It also helps to look at it through the lens of colonization and cultural appropriation. The idea that some individuals choose to take a “technology” like meditation and then turn it into a self-help book while stepping forward from a place of “I” ego, without giving acknowledgement and recognition to the lineages and traditions of origin, is disappointing. I do see value in people feeling less stress. And, I think it is limiting to only approach meditation as secular wellness, without applying the dharma/ethics of taking responsibility for how we show up in the world.

SA
I really want to stick with this idea of the colonization and appropriation of meditation, healing and wellness. If a big part of an ethical spiritual practice is coming into alignment and acknowledgement with the fundamental practice of life, our personal traumas are in relation to the traumas of the world. So where you talk about the ethics on taking responsibility for how we choose to show up in this world, I believe that is a pillar of healing work. As displaced peoples, as settlers on stolen land who exist within this system of white supremacy, it is hard for some of us to understand our own colonial histories when we have been traumatized by a system that shames our people and shows little value for our cultures and ways of knowing. When it comes to the initial process of decolonizing wellness, how did that journey begin for you? 

T
Thanks for the question. That’s a lot to cover, let me see how I can provide a snapshot. The process started for me with an internal knowing, a whisper from inside, a nudge from my intuition. When I first sat in spaces that fall under the broad category of wellness, I looked (and not just with my eyes) to see if the space holders were in alignment and integrity. If someone presented from a position of patriarchy, of absolutes, that was activating. I set an intention to connect to communities of human beings that are committed to honoring the truth that awakening, healing, and wisdom aren’t objects that can be bought and sold. To decolonize wellness, we all need to face individual and collective trauma. It can’t just be “love and light” all the time. It takes integrity and resilience to be with our woundings while at the same time acknowledging the ways in which we are complicit in systems of oppression. The story that sharing our truths around experiences of victimization as making us weak is a tool of oppressors to dominate through isolation and shame. There has been suffering throughout human history. I believe that, if we want to transmute suffering, we can’t disassociate or ignore the pain. Feeling the pain, as hard as it is, can allow us to stop identifying with it. And part of feeling the pain is in sitting with how wellness has been colonized and commodified by modernity.

SA
Wow, I never really interrogated the idea of sharing truth/point of weakness as a tool used by oppressors – thank you for sharing that. 

As someone who has recently begun their own journey in unlearning the harmful conditioning imposed by religious dogma, toxic masculinity and the ego state as a whole, what advice do you have for folks who are now embarking on committing to a practice of wellness that is both anti colonial and pro libertory. Particularly, for folks who still have to exist within the structures that oppress, say, young queer, trans, Black, Indigenous and people of color who live at home and are seeking healing yet feeling confined, daily, and might not have immediate access to a community of others on similar journeys? 

T
I have empathy and compassion for folks who do not have the privilege of choice and find themselves living within oppressive structures on the home level, especially young QTBIPOC family (I identify that way, except for the “young” part). One suggestion that immediately comes to mind is to borrow books from the library or to read free literature online. Speaking from my own place of heritage, Thich Nhat Hanh is a teacher with whom I resonate. Vietnam has a history of being colonized by China, France, and the United States. For him to survive the trauma of war, of witnessing spiritual brothers literally setting themselves on fire as spiritual practice, and to dedicate his life to the liberation of all beings is beyond inspirational. I find it moving to know that Thich Nhat Hanh and Martin Luther King, Jr. were in correspondence and held each other in great esteem. And that they learned from the non-violent social organizing practices of Gandhi. Read their words and really invite them into the heart. In that sacred space, remember that you are not alone. None of us are ever alone. Love is what connects us.

SA
Reading about Thich Nhat Hanh and Martin Luther King, Jr.’s relationship has been especially helpful for me over the past few weeks in thinking about solidarity building as fostered by internal transformative work. Thank you for that, Tony.

To end, I just want to ask if you might have some words on the importance of meditation as a tool in the revolution? 

T
For me, meditation is a path towards liberation. As long as we are still conditioned with internalized colonization and other forms of oppression, how can we fully engage in the revolution when our minds, hearts, and souls are still locked up? I have found that meditation and compassion are woven together. I ask myself, if I am committed to compassion, then what is more compassionate than abolition (of the prison-industrial complex)?

Tony is blessed to train with elders and teachers of sacred lineages who authorize him to facilitate safe containers so that others may access their own Truth. Over the past five years, he has guided meditation for hundreds of people across North America. As Tony occupies the intersectionality of being a person of color (POC) and queer (LGBT), he offers up a fiercely compassionate approach based on his own lived experiences, which can especially resonate with members of marginalized communities that seek to stand in the full power of their authentic selves. 

Connecting Ayurveda and Neuroscience and Uplifting the Divine Feminine

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Dr, I’ve learned so much from your work. I’m so interested in ayurveda and your practice as someone who not only deals with Indigenous medicine but also works in western medicine. What came first for you, was it the neuroscience or the ayurveda and did it go hand in hand? 

K
When you ask what came first, chronologically, I was introduced to ayurvedic medicine through my mom as a child. But if you have any ayurvedic experience you don’t approach it as, “Now we’re practicing medicine and now we’re not.” It has more to do with the ways that we live, the things that we eat. It wasn’t something overt. If I got sick, my mother would give me turmeric and honey before taking me to see a doctor. That became the backdrop of my childhood. 

When I talk about my professional career, first I went into neurology. I think for so many people who grow up in one culture and are raised in another, you take advantage of the wisdom in your native culture and file it away as something that has meaning but not any significance in the modern world. When I dove into neurology, I was a full fledged believer in modern medicine. It was very, very exciting in terms of the sophistication, how complicated it sounded, all of those things the young mind is hungry for. That intellectual feeding frenzy that happens when you’re in a new field. I came out of neurology not expecting that I would practice ayurvedic medicine. There were still many principles that I practiced although many fell away during my actual medical training because of the nature of that lifestyle. It was once I started practicing as a neurologist that I began getting headaches, migraines. For a neurologist to get headaches you’d think it’s not a big deal, I have an entire repertoire of medications that I could use. I spent about a year experimenting with different medications that I was prescribing as a physician and none of them worked. 

It was at the end of me searching that I actually came back to my mom and asked, “When we were growing up there were these physicians you would take me to, how can I get a hold of them?” She helped me reconnect and that was the turning point for me. When I saw the ayurvedic physician, he spent 90% of the consultation inquiring about my digestion and telling me what I needed to do to fix my digestion. That was a completely novel concept, that my headaches had anything to do with digestion. Nothing else had worked at that point and when nothing else works, you enter a state of humility. After seeing him, in three months, my headaches were completely gone. My energy increased, my creativity increased. Even though I was introduced to ayurveda as a young child, it wasn’t really until after I became a neurologist, and had this personal crisis of debilitating migraine headaches, that I then kind of reawakened and started to look at why my gut health was the underlying cause of my headaches. That just broke the entire paradigm of the way I was treating neurology.

SA
And when that shifted for you, how was that received amongst your coworkers and your clients? How did you begin to integrate that into your practice? 

K
I was working exclusively in the US at Scripps Memorial Hospital which is a very well established hospital system and certainly not a spot where you would think that this young ayurvedic practice would take birth. It was a very pulverized reaction between my patients versus my colleagues. My patients were happy and relieved that they were finally having these conversations with their neurologist. 

I was a well respected neurologist in a well respected institution. The initial response from my colleagues was of complete disbelief and, to some extent, horror. I understand that it came from a place of concern. Over time, as more about epigenetics came out, more about the mind body connection and the impact of stress and the research about the cause of chronic disease, they became more open. They also started to see that my patients were doing better, doing better in conditions that we once believed only got worse. Over time, it went from being just a foreign practice to an understanding of the basic principles: food is medicine and disease is predominantly created through lifestyle choices. Throughout the next decade, more information about the microbiome started coming out and so eventually there was some acceptance, because there was some scientific validity on why and how people got sick through their personal journey. Not just their physical journey. 

When we look at ayurvedic medicine there are so many layers to it. When I first dove into it, I was predominantly focused on what people were eating, the main stressors in their lives and the kind of exercise they were getting. There is a lot of science behind the nature of sound and the vibratory nature of the universe. I would highly recommend mantra and a deeper appreciation for the role of sound in anyone’s life because thoughts are also a form of sound, the words that we use are also a form of sound. What are the chronic thoughts that we listen to? What are the words that we are sharing with other people in the world?

SA
You’re tapping into a higher purpose, higher consciousness, deeper potential for yourself. How do you think about engaging with folks who are reluctant to engage because of the spiritual notions despite the science that shows clear benefits? 

K
It’s a very interesting question. Now that I’m back between the US and India, I will say, it’s much easier to talk and discuss and offer ayurvedic medicine to the American community than it is to the Indian community. Even in India (the center that we went there to help start) 95% of clients were foreigners and many of the local people did not see the value of this medicine because they looked at it as moving backwards because it’s part of our generational medicine. 

Even though we call it ayurvedic medicine in India, or siddha medicine in Tamil Nadu, you see similar ancient forms all over the world. This was the way that we simply healed throughout one point all over the planet. If you go to Latin America for example, they have their traditions, in Russia, they have their traditions. And if you look at the heart of these traditions, the Native American traditions in the US, they’re all very similar. There was a deep understanding of the healing potential of plants. There was a deep understanding of the mind and the body and the community and the body. It wasn’t just for the individual, they were looking at the impacts of group consciousness on health. This was a universal approach to health. I think for cultures that have had that, they are now looking towards the west for material gain, they looked for material gain and in the process rejected their own past and treasure chest of wisdom. I think that’s a natural cycle that we have to go through. 

We go through this inner rejection of our culture as we see some other culture and think it’s doing better. Then, as we see that they are now adopting what we are not doing—and I always joked with my staff in India, because I was going around the world giving lectures on mantra medicine, you know people in China were so receptive, people in all these countries were so receptive—but it was so difficult to get my Indian staff to be receptive. Now the West is adopting what we started and they are starting to shift. I think to understand the global nature of these medical practices, it becomes helpful to separate them from any particular type of religious lineage and you realize that at one point this was how we approached healing.

SA
We have so much to learn from indigenous knowledge, but there is this constant grappling as people who are not living in our ancestral homes, living in the West trying to live up to this idea of Western success. How can we hold both at the same time?

K
What I have found is that you can better accomplish the American dream when you incorporate your ancient knowledge. It’s not like these practices are telling you to give up your home and go and live in a cave somewhere in a forest. Our research is showing the same thing, that when you follow circadian rhythms you sleep really well. Here’s how you solve inflammation – and you see professional athletes such as Tom Brady who adopt certain things that you would call ayurvedic into their lifestyle. And they talk about how they’ve completely rejuvenated their bodies, they feel younger. When we focus on the science of peak performance on life, then people do start to care about how they’re eating and exercising and managing their stress. They begin to approach their life in a way where their mind and body are so in sync that they can perform at their absolute best. So many of my patients were people who were successful at life and wanted to take it to the next level. I definitely treat people with chronic illness, but I had a lot of patients who were also looking into untapped potential. 

SA
I also want to talk to you a little about the ways in which ayurveda, traditional medicine gets appropriated and commodified in a way in which markets pick and choose and in that process there is a loss of holistic healing. I personally saw a lot of this at the start of the pandemic where there was this collective anxiety where people were struggling with not knowing what was happening. It was interesting to me because the wellness industry is a multimillion dollar industry, and so many people invest in it daily, and yet there was this general depressive state. I do think we’re slowly lifting out of it as people have been interrogating this a bit deeply. How do you reckon with that? Is that just a symptom of living in the biggest capitalist country?

K
My general approach to this is first, coming from a place of patience, compassion and non judgement. If a group is embracing yoga, and when we say yoga we’re really talking about asanas – yoga is an entire school of thought and asanas are the body positions – that is people’s ‘in’. They’re at least doing something that is connecting to their body, and maybe had they not been doing that practice, they may have never addressed that there is this darkness that needs to come out. As a country goes through it’s different developmental stages, and this pandemic is part of the developmental stage for all of the different countries, responding to it reflects which stage of development they are going through – from that you start to look further. After this, there is going to be such a different way of looking at mental health because we can’t just put tens of millions of people on anxiety medication, they need something to cope on a deeper level. As that need arises, the medical system needs to mature to help that need. I’ve found that with any relationship, not just as a physician, but with any individual and any organization in the community, that if you don’t first come in from a place of non judgement, compassion and patience, you won’t make much progress. You can sit there and analyze the problems, point fingers and describe the dysfunction, but you’ll never be part of the solution. 

SA
It really is about coming with an open heart and making space to meet people where they are at. 

K
Patience is really important when you’re talking about historical trends, I know the book that I wrote about sound medicine is at least 30 – 40 years ahead of its time, to really be understood. If I was frustrated in doing work that would take decades if not centuries to be really understood then I couldn’t do it. When you’re part of history, which we all are, if you do not have the patience and the appreciation for the historical process you will never contribute anything. You will only contribute that which you can see and reap the benefits of a human lifetime. The human lifetime is a very short span – if you look at how many people in the past, the contributions that they made weren’t really manifested till centuries later. With life in general you need to have a lot of patience and not get so caught up in the timeframe of a human life time because it may or may not be the time in which you see change but that doesn’t mean you can’t be part of the change. 

SA
If the pandemic is a portal, what are your hopes for how your practice evolves post pandemic or in the next 3 – 4 years?

K
I used to be somebody who did that a lot, I would have a one year plan, three year plan, five year plan. I could have never predicted that a pandemic would happen a year ago. I stopped pitching these scenes into the future and I’ve just become more responsive to what life wants at me right now. I’ve become less focused on what I want out of life, but instead, in this moment what does life want out of me. 

I will say that one thing I have felt in general as an impulse is doing more and more to reach out to women to explain more about what many ancient cultures have of the divine femine. It’s such a beautiful way to approach womanhood. There is this idea in ayurvedic medicine, and many ancient traditions, that when there is wisdom held within a woman in a household, the entire household changes. I’ve seen that over and over and over, the strength of women to rebuild the philosophy of the family. 

SA
Wow, I really resonate with this idea of the divine feminine and I’m definitely thinking about this concept a lot lately as well. How do you have those conversations with women in India? What does that look like especially as a country that can be contradictory to the divine feminine?



K
So many of these concepts of the divine feminine come from India, and so much of my inspiration came from India. But when I went to India, I was shocked at the state of womanhood there. I was kind of horrified. It was such a collapse of what we had known. There’s a tremendous amount of pain that needs to be metabolized as a nation. Unfortunately, usually when a place is colonized, women suffer the worst repercussions. I always start with, first of all, let’s heal the body. How do we start teaching women the basics of how to treat this body correctly. How do we eat correctly, what is the manual? You start with the body. Then you look at the mind and the traumas. Being a woman in India is not easy. Having spent two years there, I have so much respect for the amount of freedom, independence and leway I had as a woman raised in the US. I always keep in mind that my sense of self came from that ancient culture. It’s very paradoxical in a way that the reason I became the woman I am in America is because of my Indian heritage but I’m only allowed to ‘flourish’ under the social circumstances of America. As we first start to explore what are the traumas of their experiences, as we start to free people of the heaviness of the body and mind, now we can start to go back to what that means. If someone has gone through repetitive sexual abuse, it’s really hard to talk about something like the divine feminine until trauma has been released. Because for them, being feminine was a huge risk, it’s not something to be celebrated, they had to hide everything that is feminine because it was something that is treated that is a liability in cultures that abuses women. So you have to, again, always approach people where they’re at. 

SA
It’s really perplexing to me how much sexual trauma there is within the South Asian community and how rife it is not only back home but also within the diaspora. Which is such a contradiction to me because I look at tantra and all these ancient texts that really spoke to the divinity of sex and intimacy and yet there’s a complete juxtaposition to the extent that we can’t even talk about it with our families. There is such a taboo around this issue and I really do appreciate this conversation. How can women start those conversations within their diasporic communities? 

K
It’s a challenge and it requires a certain degree of understanding. I was really not prepared to see the level of sexual trauma that happens to women in India. I would say the women that I was around and working with, close to 90% had experienced some kind of inappropriate sexual behaviour. The severity of that varied, but the majority of women were raised in a way where they were constantly having to protect themselves. They were told, never be in a room with a man alone, don’t walk down the street. The first few weeks of being in India, I had already experienced inappropriate sexual conduct just by walking down the street in broad daylight. The culture is really built around secrecy and women having to protect themselves against constant threat, whether it’s midday or in the evening. 

I see a lot of Indian women who now live in other countries, and as we start to do the work, I’m amazed at how much sexual trauma is lodged in their bodies. It could be women in their 30s, 40s and 50s, and even in those ages it’s hard work. You have to have realistic expectations. Could you have groups in their 20s and 30s who are ready to discuss this? Yeah, I think that’s a completely different group, but if that group needs for their mothers and grandmothers to admit what was happening, you’re trying to get water from an empty well. It may be too much. I do think this conversation can begin with younger generations, but even in that conversation, it has to shift a little bit from not just our individual stories, which are of course very important, but what is the conversation of the nation, which puts it into context historically. It helps us understand why this is the way it is, and moves you a little bit out from purely being victimized to understanding this is a national phenomenon. Switching from our individual lives to thinking about the nation and then having dialogue about what we now do as women for our legacy and the next generation, from me it would be to you, we need to start asking what we do with that legacy. That has been a desire, and coming up more and more. I’ve been amazed that heavy conversations like that can be brought up in light ways. You can train women on topics like natural beauty products, and how to create beauty from within and that’s a way to bring them into the body. You can invite people into a very warm and safe environment and then begin to take the conversations a little deeper that way. You don’t need to totally shock them. Natural beauty for example, brings up so many themes in taking care of the body. So many of the beauty products created for women are so toxic and they created hormonal imbalances because of the chemicals that react with estrogen receptors. That is just one way to say, you may not feel that you are strong enough to process this trauma, but let’s start with where you can make changes. Let’s start with, where can you make a change that is honouring yourself as a woman. Let’s have dialogue about what it means to be a woman and then you can lead people as far as they want to go from there.

I’m spending more time in my yoga practice. Doing every morning has been especially grounding


Eating a traditional Indian ayurvedic diet, incorporating more seeds that help balance hormones and cortisol levels

Reading:The Power of Now & A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. Eckhart Tolle is a rare person who is a modern spiritual teacher who actually does reflect the ancient teachings. When I read his work, it resonates so much with the ancient texts. It’s not about ‘how you manifest this’ and ‘how you get a big this’ it’s really about what is our work as human beings. To be able to hear the words of the ancient sages translated into modern language has been very helpful.

Reading: Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller. I decided during this time, I wanted to be a better parent. My son and I are separated right now because he’s in India, so now I’m thinking, what is it going to be like when I go back? How do I become a more compassionate and receptive parent? This boy is going to need, really, months of learning how to feel secure again. Attached is a wonderful book on attachment theory. It’s helping me understand better what the impact of this detachment is going to be on for him.

Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary’s combined expertise in both modern neurology and the ancient science of health known as Ayurveda has uniquely positioned her as an expert able to pull from the broadest possible base to treat her clients. She is passionate about raising awareness for the need of a paradigm shift in contemporary medicine that focuses on patient empowerment and a health-based (rather than disease-based) medical system. 

Confronting the Capitalist and Casteist Appropriations of Yoga with Neha Sharma

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SA
One of the most visibly violent wellness spaces is the yoga industry. In the west, this is driven by white capitalists appropriating Indigenous practices for profit, fetishizing and erasing true custodians of the practice. The misinterpretation of yoga is actually a double edge sword. Historically, as a practice Indigenous to South Asia, it has been reinterpreted by upper caste Brahmins as a tool of exclusion towards the Dalit community. Accessibility to yoga is widely spoken about in a Western context in recognition of the lack of space made for Black, Indigenous and people of color in general, yet an unintended supremacy lingers in the ignorance many have towards it’s South Asian roots. From the invisibility and lack of centering South Asian practitioners to a masking of the casteist interpretations of the actual practice. What have your experiences as a South Asian yogi been like in the Western world, and what does it mean for you to engage respectfully with yoga as an Indigenous practice?

N
I could write an entire essay on this, but I’ll keep it as concise as possible. As an Indian-American yoga teacher based in NYC, I have witnessed, experienced, and encountered the blatant ongoing appropriation of yoga in every sense of the word. From studio spaces to merchandises to management, being a South Asian yogi in the western world can often feel like being a foreigner in your own home. I entered the industry three years ago and since then I’ve been taken far aback to find that I have visibly no fellow South Asian yoga teachers or students in the space. I’ve never seen a single South Asian yoga model on popular yoga apparel brand ads like Lululemon or Alo, which are typically completely washed with white women and a token Black or East Asian woman. Similarly, I’ve never seen any South Asian teachers hired to teach at those brands’ studio spaces here in NYC. I’ve been an anomaly in this industry, which I’ve always found odd as an educator of the sacred practice belonging to my own ancestors. I first started teaching in small boutique studios throughout Manhattan and Brooklyn, owned and managed by white women who often knew nothing of the practice, let alone had any sense of respect for the Indigenous roots of it. One studio owner said to me once after I did a demo, “we don’t use Sanskrit here”. I thought to myself, “that is like going to church and saying, ‘we don’t say Jesus here’.” Needless to say I didn’t take the job, but somewhere between the insulting kitschy “beer yoga” and “hip hop yoga” trends, it quickly became evident how Western capitalism has violently stripped away the very essence of yoga and what it represents at its core. Western capitalism has robbed yoga of its Saucha (purity) by breaking a core philosophical principle of Asteya (non-stealing). Across the board, it’s clear that irresponsible brands getting a kick out of “Namaslay” and “Namastayinbed” have no intentions for truly embodying the cultural roots of yoga as an Indigenous practice of India. Images of the gods and goddesses I’ve grown up to praying to have become logos for their disgraceful marketing tactics. I’ve seen a Ganeshji tattooed on a non-South Asian girl’s foot — an utter sign of ignorance and disrespect. These realities have been unsettling me for years, and have filled me the same rage I feel when I think of how colonization has historically stripped Indigenous people of their identity, resources, and rich abundance for personal capital gain. I have now transmuted this rage into committing to the radical decolonization of yoga. I teach my classes with Sanskrit names for the asanas. I refuse to teach in a space that perpetuates watered down versions of the practice with trendy labels and unrelated pop fitness branding (what the hell does Cardi B have to do with yoga!?). I often take the time to illuminate the South Asian roots of yoga through my dharma talks while creating an inclusive space for all who are willing to learn with an open mind and ego-free heart. I’ve made a promise to never again work at a studio or with a company unwilling to acknowledge the Indigenous sanctity of yoga. As a South Asian teacher and practitioner, I believe it is my responsibility to engage respectfully with yoga as an Indigenous practice through action-oriented reclamation and raising my voice loudly against appropriation. *Tip* for my fellow SA teachers, an important but often overlooked place to start is to start correcting people on pronunciation. It’s not “Naaaaa-maaaa-stayyyyy”. It’s “Nam-uh-stey”. Don’t allow people to butcher our beautiful language while continuing to call themselves educators of this practice.

SA
A critique of the commodification of wellness is absolutely needed in order to sustain a practice that is genuinely focused on a deepened awakening for the Self, the Community and the Earth. Without challenging the underlying power structures of white supremacy, casteism, capitalism, the patriarchy and colonialism that often leak into wellness platforms, we are reaffirming the status quo and recreating power imbalances. How does your practice approach this idea?

N
Living in a deeply capitalist city like NYC, the commodification of wellness is so insidiously ingrained, it’s nearly impossible to disintegrate from it. It’s a constant work in progress to dig deep into the systems in place and identify the power imbalances. You can drink all the green juice in the world and wear hundreds of dollars worth of yoga leggings, but that does not make you a real yogi. The more of a pull there is towards the material possessions in the wellness industry, the farther it pulls one away from core yogic ethics like Aparigraha (non-attachment). In my personal practice, I make sure to never stop questioning what is being presented to me and how it is being presented. For example, many wellness brands recently hopped on the black square trend on Instagram in support of the “amplify melanated voices” social media campaign. Many brands completely missed the mark, posting performative content which simply reaffirmed lack of authentic reflection on true representation of Black, Indigenous and people of color in their marketing and corporate management. At this point the ignorance or alleged confusion is disingenuous because Google exists. Educators exists. There are endless resources available for those who seek true reformation. Those who are ready to learn, will in fact take the first steps to doing so. When they do, that’s when I’ll make space for them on my radar. In the meantime I continue to navigate the wellness space with just the right amount of healthy, bold skepticism and I support those who are working to dismantle the colonial structures in place. My practice is about tapping into ancestral intuition and resilience to challenge the status quo. Do not believe everything you see or hear. Keep asking the hard questions. Discomfort is how change gains momentum.

SA
How has committing to a decolonized practice of wellness allowed for an enhanced sense of your own Self?

N
It has been liberating. Each day I learn more about myself, my practice, and my purpose. I am undeniably committed to decolonization of wellness and yoga. This commitment has brought more like-minded Black, Indigenous and people of color leaders and wellness educators into my sphere, and I am happy to say I have virtually met more South Asian healers in the industry since. I believe once you sharpen your focus and find what fuels your fire, the tools for stepping into your own power will come to you. There is so much more work to be done, but I’ve discovered a new spark of hope that the decolonization process is underway and here to stay. It truly is a reclamation of Self. I am excited to be an agent for change and a medium for sharing the message.

Combining her training in alternative eastern medicine and healing with a comphrehensive background in healthcare, Neha has come to understand how mental health stressors, diseases, and chronic body pains negatively impact our lives in an increasingly demanding world plagued by external pressures. Through her work, Neha observed many gaps in the system, noticing the lack of emphasis on preventative health care. Witnessing how human behavior and lifestyle choices inevitably impact health and wellbeing at large, Neha figured it’s time to take back control over our mental and physical health without relying solely on medication and doctor visits.

The Power and Purpose of Astrology with Emmalea Russo

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Hi Emmalea! How are you? 

E
I’m okay. How are you? 

SA
I’m good! There’s been a gap since we’ve last talked but I feel like I stay connected to you through everything you’re offering—like your classes and newsletter. Can we talk a little about Arthouse Astrology first? Can you tell me what led you to create this astrology portal?

E
Yes. Our connection feels related to us both being poets who are interested in making astrology a dynamic part of daily life, yes? I started these Arthouse Astrology classes almost immediately after quarantine as a way to connect with people and consider this new reality we found ourselves in through a cosmic lens. It was important to me that the classes were not only financially accessible, but also that they exist in an environment that felt connective, real, fun — the deinstitutionalization of knowledge, as bell hooks has said. Cosmic Edges was the first class (and I thought it would be the only one), but we’ve done five. I wanted to open up a discussion around how astrology, like art, is about ways of seeing and being. And in quarantine (or even when we feel quarantined) we lose certain kinds of light/sight while gaining others. We looked at hidden or sequestered or more dimly lit regions of the sky.

I started the Arthouse Astrology newsletter/blog a few years ago as a way to think out loud re: astrology, art, pop culture, film — to think critically and electrically about it — beyond astrology as a psychological roadmap. I’m a writer first, which is inseparable from my astrology practice. The planet/god Mercury rules astrology and also writing, poetry, travel, communication. Fascinatingly, these are all ways of moving between worlds, staying curious, playful, translighting light. Staying nimble. “Cosmic rigor” is a phrase from Artaud’s writing on theatre, but I love it for astrology, too.

SA
I agree we are similar in many ways! I think I once mentioned this to you, but years ago I read charts as a way to make money. This was in 2013/14/15 and I wasn’t really making any money off of writing. It was depressing, and I was stubborn so I didn’t want to get another job. So I found that it was reasonable to make money (albeit not a lot) through “beautifully written charts” by me. I think, in a way, I was also doing it as an offering because I love this idea of making astrology more accessible, and not this mystical abstract thing as it once. It informs so much of my writing as well, so I think we’re both coming at in different but similar ways. One of the reasons Arthouse Astrology is such an important thing to me is because it allows people that very foundational understanding of astrology, but in a really poetic way. Reading you always shows me how much you enjoy writing/reading—you quote Hélène Cixous, Marguerite Duras and June Jordan to name a few—it’s so wonderful. What made you create “Cosmic Edges”?

E
“Beautifully written charts” is lovely. Astrology is the “word of the stars.” So, how we deliver or brainstorm the cosmos is a major part of the art — the word, or Mercury — moving and divining. Reading and writing is how I process reality. As you say, I cite writers and thinkers like Cixous, Duras, June Jordan — lots of poetry, current happenings, and film alongside planets and transits — informing each other. Astrology charts are written, read, and interacted. So, living. I like to see them first as visual information, too. We live in a culture of images, for better or worse, and I like the idea of learning to read astrology charts and themes alongside of/in conversation with the images that we’re met with constantly in daily life via instagram, google, whatever. We’re flooded by images! It’s essential to be able to decipher them, think critically about them, practice. 

Astrology is, as I mentioned, a Mercury-ruled situation. And Mercury is a psychopomp — an androgynous messenger god who escorts souls between the heavens and underworld. This means Mercury, in its purest essence, is non-judging, playful, and a professional amateur. Curious, curious, curious. Mercury’s allegiance is to information. This is why astrology is not a religion/belief system or a science. There’s nothing to “prove,” which is easy to forget, because we like “proof.” I think we’re living in a time where it’s easier to be a fan or a detractor rather than a critical thinker or reader. Internet culture means it’s easier to “like” or “not like” rather than pausing, thinking, making connections. We lose Mercury.

Cosmic Edges (I thought maybe 20 people would sign up; 120 people did!) was also a way to enter astrology from its “edges” — to find unexpected ways into the cosmos via poets like Cynthia Cruz and Louise Gluck, Prince’s music, qualities of light at different points of the sky, and planets as entities with their own agendas and interests. 

In her work, bell hooks talks about how love is antithetical to dominance culture, and sadly, we live in exactly that. This translates, of course, to how we see astrology, ourselves, each other. I tend to really emphasize the importance of forming relationships with the planets, with the/your sky. This makes room for love and subverts the whole dominance-submission predicament. As you probably know, the tendency can be (even if we don’t realize it) to want to dominate the stars (what can these planets do for us, how can we use them to our advantage?) or feel frightened that they’ll dominate us (fuck, what are they going to do?) How can we form relationships with these planets? Call them directly? Make dialogue? Relate based on love? 

I taught a 7-week Venus retrograde class called Venus Daze, as you know. It was so fun — a space for devotedly looking at/thinking about Venus’s maneuvers while connecting her with our own lives, revolution, politics, art, etc. We talked about phoning the planets direct: 1-800-VENUS. Someone in the class even made a postcard that said 1-800-VENUS over a photo of Venus as the evening star. When I got it in the mail, I got teary! How we regard the planets can be a school for how we treat each other. How can we be more human(e) in these really device-drenched, techy times?

SA
Gah! You said so much I want to touch on, but firstly: “word of the stars.” Wow. I had no idea. I guess this segues into my next question, what have you seen that has been gained by this experience for yourself or even the folks that have participated so far? As you said, you’re pastiching disparate ideas, but bringing them together in such artful ways while making them accessible—for me, that’s such a beautiful act of service. With Studio Ānanda, that’s been the goal, to make healing information accessible and fun to anybody who wants to know more. All this information has been stolen or appropriated by whiteness or capitalism, so giving it back to the people is definitely a mission of mine. Everyone should have access to these things! So, I want to hear first about what kind of immediate impact you’ve seen though Cosmic Edges. You obviously see the value of people knowing more about their charts and learning about astrology and it excites me to know that so many folks (120!) just want to know and learn more.

E
On the last day of our Venus Daze workshop, someone asked me if making these classes has changed me. The short answer is: yes. I’ve learned so much about holding digital space and creating artful, slow, interesting classes instead of “content.” Or, just creating for the sake of having something to sell. I see these workshops and writings as part of my artistic practice. So, in one way, they’re part of a very long and large unfolding process. In another way, they’re about connection — which is the true nature of love, of Venus. 

Two things come to mind. First: the ethics and nuances of where and how we direct our attention. These spaces (zoom, social media, etc.) are not neutral. They really prize guru-ization. Instagram, as a capitalist tool, is built for audiences, not community. In these classes, which are always experimental, I really strive for community. Example: I center the chat feature. The conversations have become quite epic — hilarious, wild, smart, dynamic — with something like 7,000 words on average per class. People supporting each other, affirming, going deep. How can we prioritize connection over audience or “engagement” and not be transactional, not turn everything into capital, especially when we live in an attention economy?  

Second, everything is more generative and aerated when we don’t center our own astrologies. This means that while we all have certain qualities, fates, and sky atmospheres, we’re also all connected — part of one cosmic situation. So, I like to focus first on the seeing, the discerning, the play — at least in the workshops, rather than our own individual charts. Obviously, 1-1 sessions are a different animal. And I love them! I love divining and chatting about individual astrology. However, I am really devoted to astrology as a slow art. I think this transactionality is everywhere in this white supremacist captialist patriarchy we live in. Divination is not transactional. 

SA
This ancient information, that in practice should be accessible to all, rarely is. It’s so powerful to hear about anti-capitalist reclamation of healing modalities such as astrology, because I think what you’re saying (and what I believe as well) is that astrology is an incredible tool for healing. Of course it’s all interpretative, but I think there’s something immensely powerful in surrendering to divination methods. The more I’ve done that, the more I’ve helped my anxiety or fears. I’m not kidding, I think understanding myself astrologically has made me love myself more, and therefore lend that care to others as well. We’re obviously in the middle of a pandemic and global revolution for Black liberation—how do you think folks can use astrology to benefit themselves and the work for these times?

E
I like how you say that the more you’ve surrendered to divination modalities, the less fear you have. That’s totally beautiful. And it’s why I got into this whole astrology thing in the first place. Less about “curing” and quick fixes and way more about sensing, seeing, learning. I remember the first time I really studied my chart and learned about where my Venus is located and what it’s going through in my sky, I felt seen in a way I had never felt in therapy or university. I love therapy and school, so that’s not a dig. I actually get chills when I talk about it, even now — feeling witnessed/mirrored by the sky in that way. But astrology is another way into the self, and therefore the world. And it’s not necessarily about fixing, which we aren’t used to in these times. We like solutions, formulas. Astrology teaches about cycles of time — historically and also via different planetary speeds (the moon moves quite differently than Mercury, for instance). 

Re: your very important question about using astrology to benefit people during this global pandemic and movement for Black liberation — I think, again, it’s about seeing. When we can find different points of entry into our situations, we start to think about justice, love, and equity in new ways. We need new ways. The system, as they say, is not failing. It’s working quite well. And that’s frightening. Capitalism, which is inherently tied to systemic racism and all kinds of oppression, is tricky — because it has a way of recuperating even subversion and transgression back into the machine, making them trendy. Think of the wellness industrial complex. Healing modalities have been co-opted and made consumptive instead of accessible or revolutionary. 

When we work with astrology, art, etc. in ways that are engaged in critical discourse and not about groupthink or greed or “getting stuff” out of each other or the planets, we start to subvert our own systems. We begin to look at each other and ourselves as citizens. These times have a way of depoliticizing….everything. Astrology is not apolitical. Ditto wellness. How we care for each other and ourselves, what we choose to center or relegate to the edges is deeply political. What happens if we see ourselves as citizens who are responsible to each other instead of merely individuals on a path? Somewhere along the way, healing modalities started being about self-care at the expense of community care. 

SA
Precisely. I think what’s so cool is that in order for us to truly be anti-Capitalist, we are realizing that we have to address and face ourselves. That there can’t just be supplementary pleasures that fill those gaping holes anymore. I’ve realized in 2020—almost more and more as the year goes by—s that I need to completely align with myself, politically, spiritually and physically (as in how I embody those two things in my human form) so that means if I’m saying I’m anti-Capitalist, I’m not trying to surreptitiously hoard money or you know placate my shopping addiction. Studio Ānanada and everything we are trying to achieve, is creating an alternative language for cultural exchange, on multiple levels. 

I think a lot of folks often say you can’t be perfect like an adage, but I’m sorry this is so diabolical, but recently I’ve been wondering what would it mean to try to attain perfect spiritual standards? Of course those are subjective, but I’m curious about the possibility. What astrology offers is just another way to familiarize ourselves with our truths so that we can attain spiritual highs/heights. What are ways you’d direct folks who want to know more astrology who want to go deeper?

E
This makes me think of that Barbara Kruger piece: “I shop therefore I am.” Shopping brain applies to everything, right? The way we interact with each other, the world, art, astrology. Being against capitalism while in a capitalist system is a real mindfuck. Mark Fisher writes about how the danger of capitalism is its pervasiveness, the fact that there appears to be “no other alternative.” I like how you say “diabolical.” Shopping for happiness is diabolical, and often we don’t even know we’re doing it. Freaky. 

In “Love as the Practice of Freedom,” bell hooks writes: “Acknowledging the truth of our reality, both individual and collective is a necessary stage for personal and political growth.” I see astrology as a way to acknowledge “the truth of our reality.” Of course, like anything, it can be an escape hatch. It’s all about how we engage. I wrote about astrology as a love practice here. 

I was listening to a James Hillman lecture a while back and he was, I think paraphrasing someone, but he said something like: “By the time you’ve figured out what part of yourself the homeless person represents, you’ve already walked by the homeless person.” That beautifully and disturbingly sums it up. To really see each other’s predicaments and beauties, there has to be some kind of unhooking from the attention economy, from selfie mode, from shopping for truth. Humor helps, too.

SA
What future astrology excites you, if any?

E
I’m psyched by the fact that so many people are into the stars, tuning into astrology in dynamic ways — queering it, radicalizing it, going to the root and history of it, applying it to these times. I feel most excited by critical discourse — creating space for really asking questions, making mistakes, fucking up, coming together, laughing. Astrology as art, astrology as a way to be more human(e)! I’m excited about the houses — an often misunderstood or glazed-over part of astrology. I’m doing a special series called Strange Mansions for newsletter subscribers in October. 

Specifically: the Saturn-Jupiter conjunction on December 21st. Vibe change.

SA
Any last thoughts you’d like to share?

E
I adore you! I love this work you’re doing. Thank you. 

My website: https://emmalearusso.com/

My newsletter: https://emmalea.substack.com/ (the main way to stay in touch, get this work daily is to subscribe, as I’m taking a long break from classes!)

Readings: https://emmalearusso.com/bookreading

Classes to download: https://emmalearusso.com/arthouse-downloads

Personalized astrology write-ups: https://emmalearusso.com/skyoracle

Instagram: @arthouse.astrology

SA
And if you want to create a soundtrack to the 10 planets, what would they be?

E
AH! I love this question. I actually create playlists for Arthouse classes because music sets such a mood, creates a container. We’re all pretty into them.

Here’s one for  

Here’s one for the WORKSHOP 


My list for

Sun: Celebrity Skin by Hole / I Want to See You by Alice Coltrane

Moon: Swim Good by Frank Ocean

Mercury: All My Little Worlds by The Magnetic Fields / Wreath by Perfume Genius

Venus: The First Wave Birth of Venus by Suzanne Ciani 

Mars: Little Red Corvette by Prince

Jupiter: No Sleep Till Brooklyn by the Beastie Boys

Saturn: The Disintegration Loops by William Basinsky (all four albums!)

Uranus: Technologic by Daft Punk

Neptune: Dreams by Fleetwood Mac / Heroin by The Velvet Underground

Pluto: When the Man Comes Around by Johnny Cash / Love Song for a Vampire by Annie Lennox

Spiritual Birth and Swami Taboos with Jasper Lotti

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Jasper, how are you doing this morning?

J
I’m good! I was nocturnal ever since quarantine started but I’ve gotten back to waking up early. It feels so good. How about you?

SA
My sleep pattern has also kind of been all over the place lately but this week I’ve tried to be a little more strict with myself. I’m good, a little achey and still slowly waking up but so excited to be talking to you!!! What’ve you been up to during quarantine, how have you been keeping grounded?

J
Very excited to talk to u toooo. Hmm, I’ve been really turning inward and seeing how my energy is unbalanced. Just trying to fix myself and face my demons. And just getting more comfortable with myself overall. Fixing my energy has really helped me stay grounded and feel at home in my body. I think maintaining your homeostasis when the external world is so chaotic is so crucial right now. 

SA
I so agree that it’s necessary to have some sort of internal equilibrium in order to deal with the constant crises around us. When/how did you come to realize that your energy was unbalanced? Was it a particular moment or a culmination of varying things? 

J
My life was going at such a crazy pace. Once I was locked down and was able to sit with myself, I was able to see how I was reacting and acting in a more subjective way. I’m a very chill person around my friends, and being in lockdown with my family was a lot and definitely showed me sides of myself I didn’t like. They were treating me like I was in high school and it made me realize I had to go back to my past and do a lot of healing on my younger self. Even though I’m a different version now, seeing how I reacted to their comments made me realize the work I had to do in order to heal my younger self. It’s really weird but it helped me a lot with my current self.

SA
Wow, I so relate and hear you. I think one thing that came up for so many of us was the need to reparent ourselves. I can’t imagine what being in quarantine with my family would be like, so big ups to you for navigating that. I want to hear more about your upbringing in terms of navigating culture and spirituality and how you understand it now. You incorporate so much of it into your art and I think it’s really beautiful to hear how you are on this journey to better yourself while rethinking cultural/spiritual values. What has that been like for you?

J
Up until like mid-elementary school, my grandparents lived with us. And they are super super religious and are devotees of Swami Sivananda. So growing up I was always playing with my grandma and she would teach me mantras and I would play in our pooja room. Every night before I would sleep she would tell me stories, the mythology of different gods and stuff from the Mahabharata. I kind of developed this fantastical idea of gods and spirituality. I would draw different gods and write my own stories, really into the idea of this other universe. My mom introduced me to spirituality very early on in my life, like pre-school. Broad topics about the universe and how energy works. On top of that, I was singing in a gospel choir and classical Hindustani music. I was really submerged in this magical bubble. But I didn’t consider and still don’t see myself as “religious,” but spiritual. I do appreciate all religions, especially the mythological side. It can be so powerful and inspiring because it makes us feel linked to these fantastical worlds. I have so much appreciation for my upbringing. I got pressured as I went through schooling to become a doctor/study harder but I was never good at school, especially math. And so my ideas of the world as this magical place started to fade as the modern education system killed my spirit lol….but I found it again as I went through really dark times in high school and college as I started creating music and coming into my art. I was brainwashed into thinking life is a constant struggle and suffering, money is all that matters etc. like NO. I was right when I was a kid. The world is this magical place with energy moving around, humans are so magical, we have magical powers, everything is so insanely beautiful. 

SA
This reminds me of something I grew up around which was this notion of having faith and a spirituality that is ‘child like’, and really coming back to the purity and innocence of a radical curiosity, hunger + thirst to know both the world + yourself. So many of us get jaded and then can’t see beyond the darkness.. 

OK so, I want to ask you about what you and I have been sporadically chatting about in terms of sexuality and spirituality. I hit you up when I saw you posted a screenshot of a pornsite that had a Swami category… I was SOOO infatuated because for me, I’m really working through how my sexuality and spirituality are connected considering there have been many attempts to squash my sexuality through spiritual practices, thus the connection I have to my higher self has also been hindered. How did you stumble upon the Swami fetish?? 

J
Yes to all of this. I guess going back a bit, being born into a very religious family, I was never really seen as a “girl,” and any sexual desire or urges I had growing up under my family’s roof was way off the table in terms of discussion. I was scared to show this side of myself to my parents because I did have such strong feelings but was ashamed/embarrassed. So until college where I had freedom to live on my own I literally felt like a blob of nothingness LOL. As I lost touch with my younger child, I lost touch with what it meant to be spiritual. The moment I had my sexual awakening, I had this spiritual rebirth as well. That was a pivotal moment where I was able to connect back with my younger child and start this new journey of rebuilding and spiritual growth. Once I experienced my sexual power, I was like wtf this is so magical…how are humans able to do this. When you orgasm and feel sexual, it’s such a direct feeling of your own godly energy. Like damn….what? So for me, having that firsthand experience of this crazy power within me was like ignition to my spiritual path. The energy is so TANGIBLE, you don’t have to go looking for it. Ever since that point I’ve always really thought about spirituality and sexuality as extremely linked. 

In terms of the Swami fetish, growing up in a family with a Swami being so central to notions of spirituality, I started to think how people relate to these figures. Like, my grandma LOVES swami sivananda. And ever since my grandpa passed she has really been devoting herself completely to her worship. I just became curious and started googling things… I think the line of devotion and attraction is soooo fine. I don’t think attraction has to be “sexualized.” Devotion is sincere love, love doesn’t have to be sexualized. I came to this conclusion that sexualization doesn’t have to be “sexualized.” It just is. And just looking back at hindu mythology, if you look at the story of shiva and parvati: she was born as a human and was in love with Shiva, a god, and prayed to him everyday in hopes that she would marry him. Like that’s devotion being sexualized. She literally wanted him sexually! And krishna with his gopis. He would lure them with the sound of his flute (lol) and kiss them, and some sources say even have sex with them, because they were so devoted to him. There is this weird line between devotion and attraction and desire…I feel like energy is energy. Channeling it through sexuality is just another medium. But because we have all these taboos and ideas around sexuality, it’s seen as so separate from these notions of spirituality when in reality it truly is not. There is a lot of repression involved in these dynamics. So ya…that’s where the Swami fetish came from! haha

SA
It’s so interesting to me how we come from a culture that explores sexuality so fluidly and organically and yet, now, we look at South Asian culture as one of the most sexually repressed ones. Like, I hate that when I saw the screenshot of the Swami, my mind immediately went to thinking about all the predatory stories I have heard about Swami’s instead of thinking about it as something more divinatory.. I really want to go into a deeper dive with you about all of this… but, because I am running out of time, to end, can you talk me through some things that are helping you stay grounded right now? 

J
I’ve been watching wayyy much more anime than I usually do. It feels like an escape and I think it’s been helping me mentally just to live vicariously thru these characters. In particular, Inuyasha, Rurouni Kenshin, Fushugi Yugi. Anything with medieval Japan. I think I have some past life connection to that era because I resonate so strongly. I’ve been working on my next EP called Priestess, which is pretty much a culmination of a lot of spiritual work, my obsession with cosmology and my exploration into divine feminine culminating. I think honestly just following your curiosity right now is so important, like learning about new topics or new skills, just challenging yourself in new ways is so crucial to staying grounded. Bare feet on grass ! That really aligns me and makes me feel literally rooted. I started this routine at the start of the year of doing a yoga flow + meditation first thing when I wake up. It’s literally changed my life, getting my into a good headspace to start the day. Like taking time for yourself when you wake up, to feel aware and intentional before you start is so important.I think overall taking care of my body too…I was so busy before I didn’t stop to ask my body how it was feeling, like give it enough love. Thanking it for being my vessel in this weird experience. It’s corny but these things have overall made me feel more gratitude in my life overall and love for humanity and the universe. It’s the only way to stay positive and keep building! Time off social media, off Instagram. Being in the present. I know this situation has forced us to be on social media even more, but I’ve been really seeing the matrix of it all and am just TIRED of the cycles and algorithm lol…so only going on when I need to/using it for messaging. I’ve started journaling as well, it’s been helping me keep track of my life and goals, just being more active and present.

Creating a Movement of Integrity with Fariha Róisín

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

Fariha Róisín is a multidisciplinary artist living on Earth. She is the author of the poetry collection How To Cure A Ghost (2019), as well as the novel Like A Bird (2020). Fariha founded Studio Ānanda alongside Prinita Thevarajah in May 2020. The pair recently sat down for a conversation on slowing down to reset our operating system and the significance in leading lives with integrity.

F
Hi love!

P
Hi! How are you feeling? You’ve had such a full on day. 

F
I’m feeling a few things — tired, exhausted come to my mind. My body (mainly shoulders) have been incredibly tender today so I’ve been feeling that constriction in my muscles, too. I’ve been smoking less weed these last few days, as I’m trying to sit with myself, and listen. But it’s actually so hard to keep that attention, to be mindful of my body’s needs, without assigning judgment. But then, my spirit today is also feeling conflicted: I feel joy that I’m here, talking to you, that I’m back in New York, but I’m also cognizant that I need rest. Always working within these bodily and mind conflicts I guess.  

How are you?

P
I’m also feeling a lot of different things this morning. I get out of quarantine in five hours. I’m excited to be outside and feel the sun directly on my skin, unobstructed by a window & to breathe fresh air!! Unsure about what my first few interactions with my family will be like, but overall excited. 

You’ve made it through a full week back in New York, and knowing your schedule, it’s incredible to me that you’re even able to make room for conversations like this one. I hope the weekend is deeply regenerative for you & that you’ll be able to restore fragmented bits of energy and call your spirit back to yourself. 

One thing that has always struck me about you is that even as you work on so many different projects at all times, the quality of your art and the passion in your presentation always comes through so strong. Where does that come from? I know what you’re saying is it does take a toll on your mind and your body, though the fact that you’re able to go for so long without losing steam… it’s incredible to see unfold.

F
Thank you <3 That reflection is so important for me because I think I’ve told you, but an astrologer earlier this year told me that I’m the type of person to do the work even when nobody’s watching, and I relate to that sentiment with my whole personhood. I am just dedicated to doing the work. I could explain that astrologically, I’m ruled by Saturn, so hard work is meditative to me. I find my best self when I get into that flow, which is what it is for me, a flow of motion. I do feel like a sorcerer, a magician, or an alchemizer, and that’s what all my work feels like. As if I’m channeling something. It’s so innate, so intuitive, that it’s really an energy that I tap into. Maybe it’s spirit, maybe it’s the ancestral realm that I’m dipping into, but I also think it’s a contract that I signed onto in this lifetime. I feel charged by something beyond me. 

But in the human realm, on the other end of the spectrum, I do suffer. As a child love was beyond me, and I have really worked to find that as an adult—in my community, in my friendships, at the very least. But I’m still bad at asking for help, or telling folks that I’m suffering. I’m very good at excelling while I’m barely surviving. Which I guess is a trauma response. 

P
I’ve known you now for about four full years and it’s clear that there is kinetic energy that flows through you. It’s tangible and I feel it in the spaces that you occupy, whether that be your home space or the way you manage your interpersonal relationships. There is a great deal of thoughtfulness that you move with, that you’re teaching me everyday. One thing in particular I’ve been thinking about is integrity. You operate with so much of it & I think it can be jarring for some, especially in an era where social media allows for a disconnected personality, to see that in action. The way that you’re able to be so vulnerable as a public facing figure, and yet at the same time struggle to ask for help, for me that is heartbreaking and another example of how you’re always trying to move without ego and in full transparency. 

F
Yeah, it’s honestly a battle. I struggle with it immensely. I don’t know if it’s my Cancer Moon (lol) or the fact that I’m a Jupiter Cancer. Probably not, I just think it’s instinct. My entire therapy is built around how I tried to make myself perfect and how I was still abused. It’s actually painful to think about. I think I was just raised by my sister and father with such incredible values. My dad is a man of his word. He’s one of the best men I know. Or people, period. I guess despite the kind of horrifying shit the three of us experienced, it encouraged us to be really caring and compassionate… and also not complain. Which is why I find it so hard to. I was sort of this court jester character in my family, always making people laugh. If my mother was having an episode I was thrown into the pit to calm her down. Sometimes willingly, but I wonder if a child ever really has a choice. I just saw myself, and my value, as a token for someone else. I didn’t realize that I could have my own life for quite some time. Now, many years later, I still suffer from not prioritizing myself or my own needs. The thought I could hurt someone always is what drives me. And it’s a lonely world being like this. 

I think the hardest part is people don’t believe what they see, and then they use it against me. That’s what Shaka, my ex told me a few months ago. I’m obviously not perfect lol and I have many flaws, but it is a really lonely thing to be dedicated to one’s word and to try to be the best example all the time. I’m just sort of always trying to be better. 

P
I’m reminded of the post-it note that sits above your desk in your office which simply says “just be good”. It’s such a simple yet difficult task for most of humanity to just be good.

What does prioritizing yourself these days look like?

F
I love that post-it note so much! Prioritizing myself means trying to locate how I feel at all times and letting that guide me. But because I was extremely abused, my senses are sort of dulled. Especially when it comes to being uncomfortable… so I’m trying to gain better fluency to myself so I can actually ascertain what I need in a moment. And that is a lot of work for someone who could never say how they felt (when it was bad). There’s a lot of deprogramming of such simple things for me, and I guess I’m just trying to be kinder to myself, show myself the compassion I give everyone else all the time.

P
I think it should be spoken about more how childhood sexual abuse and childhood abuse survivors in general have to literally rewire their brain in order to fully function as a capable adult. You are actively doing that work while on tour, writing a fourth book, running a studio and all the other bits and bobs that you fit yourself into.

What is coming up for me now is this slowness you drive, which is antithetical to everything that we have been taught. A slowness and a gentleness which ultimately says that, if you are not kind to yourself and others, if you are not slow with your journey and with the journey of others, then your practice will not be sustainable and your purpose might not be realized. It’s not an easy thing to move this way in a city like New York City especially. 

F
Yeah it’s incredibly difficult to have that kind of discipline. I learned this by trial and error and basically I’m a fast learner, and I don’t want to waste time. My own or anybody else’s. I think when I was in my early 20s I was messy enough times to realize that shit doesn’t work for me. I don’t enjoy it, it’s too shameful for me. I hate carrying that weight. I think all of us have moments of entitlement, where we feel we are owed things. Especially as a survivor. Then, I think by the time I re-entered New York, and especially after my last break up, I realized there were holes in my character that I had to address. It’s when my real first spiritual download happened, as if I was like Fariha 4.0, my system was re-energized. In plant medicine circles the human psyche is referred to as the “operating system” or O.S a lot, and I relate to that frameworking. What are you keeping in your body that is old hardware? What isn’t serving you anymore? To evolve basically means ending patterns. 

So for me, aligning myself with who I say I am was a very important step in the evolution of myself. I have high standards, but I’m a person that gives such high standards back. It’s something that I have to remind myself all the time, and actually that is what’s begun to (to refer back to your earlier question) help prioritize my needs more—just because I’m bearing witness to how I’m evolving.

P
Right – you are only expecting from others what you expect from yourself. That is a very radical type of accountability. Truthfully, as someone who is in their early 20s, I’ve never experienced a dynamic like ours where you really do hold me to how I say I’m trying to be in the world. Because, you’re right – a lot of us are carrying this really slippery entitlement that is often leveraged in terms of our past. But with you, you see it and you say ok, so now how are we going to move forward and be better and avoid repeating stagnant patterns. 

It’s not an easy way to live, it’s actually very uncomfortable and I respect you for your ability to be comfortable with uncomfortability. So much of the hope I have in the mission for Studio Ananda really does tie back into the way you and I both handle conflict, confusion and collaboration. 

On Wednesday our filler post was, ‘your greatest enemy is in your hearts and mind’ and we were informed that it was a line pulled from Thich Nhat Hanh’s letter to MLK, where he was writing about the parallels between the inhumanities in Vietnam and the civil rights movement. He was delving into this idea of – transform yourself first to transform the world around you. And that’s what seeps out of so much of the art that you create and the way you live your daily life. 

F
Thank you. Our relationship has taught me so much about the importance of reflecting your best self at all times. We are friends who ventured on this incredible, beautiful mission. It means that there always has to be an emphasis on full transparency. When I need to tell you something, that may be difficult to say, it’s actually so powerful for me to remember that I owe it to the both of us to be completely honest. Because our work relies on that transparency. What we are creating with Studio Ananda has never been done before. So it means that the way you and I co-exist, or even how we work with Sonia/Raver Jinn, has to be of the highest order. I think sometimes I feel like a monk, and I’m sure you know lol, I’m just really obsessed with integrity. 

The other day I pulled the Jaquar Card which is Integrity/Impeccability card in my Medicine /Animal Tarot Deck. It brought tears to my eyes. It made me think of my ayahuasca shaman Jyoti, who is somebody who has incredible integrity. That means she’s sometimes scary, lol. I don’t endeavor to be like her completely, but I think there’s immense value in bluntness, in telling the truth. And that’s the energy I want to bring to my work, to my relationships, to Studio Ananda. 

P
And ultimately, you are just helping me see myself a little more clearly as well. It’s cool that you’re able to do that in a way that is candid, blunt only to cut the BS and allow for a really clarified perspective on the situation. Which is super different for me to experience as someone who has only ever been met with a bluntness that was self serving and meant to harm rather than bring higher understanding, so thank you. 

What are your deepest hopes and dreams for Studio Ananda? 

F
To create a movement of integrity. I hope that people are moved by the discipline of evolution and encouraged by the people we talk to, the archive we build, the schools, the impact that we foster and create. I take deep solace in the Islamic Renaissance. Studio Ananda is a harking back to that time of enlightenment, to show people how reflection and healing are radical tools to dismantling systems. Now, in this lifetime, in order for us to work together and destroy capitalism, patriarchy and white supremacy, we need to understand that there is a collective call to action. That starts with the self, of confronting the demons, the ancestral baggage, so you can be a true accomplice and comrade. All liberation groups were destroyed by the ego. We need to work seamlessly and understand the true way to truly liberate is to do so yourself. It begins with you and it becomes a mighty foundation to then inspire and motivate others, or to hold them up in their process. This is what we owe each other. This is the way we face the apocalypse. I want humans to evolve. I hope Studio Ananda helps on that journey.

P
Feeling very blessed, activated and grateful to be able to build this space alongside you and curiously waiting to see where the universe takes us with Studio Ananda. I feel very humbled to be able to stand beside you and offer this space as a resource to others. 

I know it’s getting late over there, how are you feeling right now? 

F
The feeling is mutual, my love! I feel good. I’m so excited for what’s to come. We are building, co-creating, a truly moving place. To watch us grow has been a gift. I’m also looking forward to continuing this conversation. There’s more to come, and more to say. We are expanding in so many different ways, and it thrills me to be on this journey with you.

P
Same!

Holding on to this thread of integrity, do you have any particular resources that come to mind, texts, audio, visuals that have encouraged you to stand strong in your practice of integrity? 

F
Oh I love this! Ok, what comes to mind is the John O’Donohue On Being episode, as well as his book Anam Cara. He was a poet, priest and philosopher. I don’t know why I find him so moving, but maybe because he’s writing about survival but through the lens of beauty, the importance of always keeping something beautiful in your mind. 

I also have been so called to action by Ruth Wilson Gilmore, and other abolitionists like Mariame Kaba. To be an abolitionist, I think, relies on integrity. It means believing something so beyond you, and so outside the realm of experience, but to dream for it anyway. To believe in transformative justice means to be better for it. If we believe in abolition, we have to transform ourselves, as a species and as people. That’s exhilarating to me. Same goes with the environment, in the hope of being climate warriors. I’ve been reading Earth Democracy by Vandana Shiva, and similarly, it’s such a hopeful book. This time, pandemic time — this portal itself — is asking us to push against our inertia so we can save this planet. 

P
Perfect, thank you for sharing these. Do you have any last words you want to add? 

F
I’ve been meditating on this quote by Joanna Macy, “We can sense that we are in a space without a map. That we’re on shifting ground. Where old habits and old scenarios, all previous expectations, all familiar features no longer apply. It’s like we’re unmoored, cast loose. In Tibetan Buddhism, such a place, or gap between known worlds, is called a bardo. It’s kind of frightening. It’s also a place for potential transformation.”

Fostering a Practice of Slowness with Theo Martins

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Theo, how has your Friday been?

T
Quite snazzy, honestly. Had attended a birthday party for a family friend and it was great to see familiar faces. Had a short convo with someone that I, hm, I wouldn’t say I disliked, but it reminded me of why I make the decisions I make now. How was yours?

SA
I once saw something by the artist Tania Bruguera that said ‘How you enable people to disagree with you is a measure of your belief in community’, and I’ve been trying to hold that whenever I engage with people who rub me the wrong way. My Friday was yesterday! And it was interesting. Hotel quarantine means I can’t leave my pod for 2 weeks. It’s feeling very Jetsons meets Lost in Translation. 

I want to talk to you about Good Posture – can you tell me a bit about your practice with it? If and how has the idea of slow production shaped the way you navigate the platform?

T
Profound quote and a profound way to look at it. I agree. Jetson meets Lost In Translation is a great visual by the way. You’re literally in the future.

Posture is my vehicle for research and a way to understand the world around me, truly. I initially launched it under the idea that it would be a traditional clothing brand but after many attempts and opportunities to fulfill that it was clear that the work here with Posture was for me more than anyone else. I was a direct reflection of the work; as I grew it grew. Those initial experiences of attempting to BE something, whether a brand, a record label, an idea tank — all of those attempts helped to clarify to me that it was beyond the shell of what those things represented. It was important to go beyond the veneer of these titles and categories and explore what it is. I came out on the other end of it with clarity that Posture was all of those things and more, but the approach was through my own lens and through my own experiences. I think knowing there are limits and knowing boundaries to what I did allows me to be absolutely efficient to that degree. By not choosing to race I’ve uncovered a vast world where anything I do is possible. That’s only come about by pausing, by looking at things very deeply and clearly. I felt very insecure about that growing up, felt insecure about taking things serious, about caring. But it’s the most valuable because it’s where presence lies.

SA
You’re touching on so much good stuff. Two things that immediately come to mind:

1) This idea of having no predetermined goal. Allowing the work to show for itself without any projected expectations other than for it to be a project that runs fluidly and is a reflection of the current world and politic. I think that’s what’s so cool about Posture, having the space to reevaluate – if it’s clear the fashion industry is unsustainable, it means not considering the crisis of climate change an end to the project but instead looking at the reality of the future and thinking about how the platform can now adapt to better serve folks as the world changes in a way that’s more long lasting and ethical.

2) The other thing that is very striking is this idea of pause that you practice with. I don’t think a lot of us really knew what it meant to stop, put things down and be still for a moment until the pandemic hit and we were forced to. Call it divine intervention? In May, after we had been put on pause for a few months, carbon emissions had dropped by 17%, so the Earth was clearly healing by the collective forced pause. Suddenly, there was this phenomenon, among creatives especially, where folks were running to other modes of productivity, almost in a spiral. Everyone was talking about ‘Shakespeare wrote King Lear during the plague’, there was this urgency to make make make make. A very internalized effect of neoliberal structures of productivity. So again, even when the external was forcing us to stop, it was difficult for the collective to be still internally, creatively. We’ve been talking about rest and play as integral to our practice – how have you been moving through rest and play with your creative work? 

T
Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing this space to talk honestly, deeply and thoughtfully. You know it sounds fluffy but it’s something I don’t take for granted because I’m aware of its rarity. I’m aware because I’ve offered to many with the expectation that it would be reciprocated, but it takes understanding it’s worth to know not to treat it recklessly. So thank you. Going through your points here, my brain is firing off reponses like a rocket lol. It’s so amazing to make work, allow it to BE (aka fluidity), and for it to reflect the current world. That’s amazing! It’s so simple but incredibly difficult to put into practice. You have to earn that. It’s an arrival, if you will. And it takes removing the veil from one’s eyes to see that. Because it’s always there, right in front of you. Or us, rather. I LOVE reevaluating. There’s great power in changing one’s mind. There is a power struggle in every relationship, especially interpersonal where you do one thing and your partner does another. But the idea of opting out, of changing your mind is the door you never quite think to open. But I love opening that door. Because the game comes to an end and what it is is always revealed in that moment. I hope I’m not going off track here – I’m just flowing. With Posture I love slowly arriving to the realization of what it is. Fuck what it can be, should be, etc. Let’s look at it for what it is. It’s allowed adaptability, I can serve others by being present. And as it changes, we change too. That’s okay. Who says we can’t? What’s this secret code that says we can’t change? That’s demonic. 

It reminds me of the project that was inspired by my own experiences walking and by our current pandemic, race war, etc. I walk a great deal, be it that I’m a city boy or prefer to exercise my thoughts by talking aloud and walking through a neighborhood – it’s my thing. It’s cathartic. I like routine, I like to awaken in the morning, meditate right where I lay, and slowly enter the day. That’s important to me. I don’t think rushing into anything makes the work better. And I’ve realized that over time for me it’s what works best. Because while I’m easing in the day, it’s also building up this anticipation to dive into my work with a laser-like focus. It’s like the movies you watch when a wave climbs so high and everything goes silent and you know the crash of the wave will just be massive, you know? It’s that build up. And it’s an important balance and flow for me. I’ve come to understand how I prefer to work, when I prefer to work, the type of work I prefer to do. I’ve explored all of that. It’s created a system if you will. It’s what allows the slowness and efficiency and the other things that make this thing work. If I compromise it by doing too much, or doing work that pulls me out of myself I feel it immediately. 

SA
Can you tell me about the walking club you have been thinking about? 

T
Sure. So I love to walk. I’m not the biggest fan of running lol. Walking for me is beyond just walking, it’s integral. It’s what our bodies do best. We’re not the fastest mammals, we’re great at walking. Plus it’s incredible for your mind, body and “spirit”. I say “spirit” with quotes as I mean the energy moved within your mind and body, not denoting any religious practice

From Why Walking Helps Us Think by Ferris Jabr for the New York Times

Insight comes from walking. It’s not a conscious thing to do. I love that. It’s a lot like me. I like to walk at my own pace and I have my own gait. I love it. The walking club is for any and everyone. There is literally nothing you need to join. The slogan is, “if you want to join – just start walking”. I’ve made some shoe insoles that folks can insert into any pair of their own shoes to walk. Shit, if you’re wearing shoes to work and you want to join, guess what, you can. It’s an open door to collaborate. And all that I’m doing here is collaborating. There’s an album I’m making that will accompany the Walking Club titled, Walking Music. If you need a soundtrack for your walk, guess what, you’ve got one lol.

SA
Oof yes – the idea of walking as an act of consciousness raising is super subversive, especially in a city like New York, which is characterized by it’s fast pace. I also think it is anti establishment in the way that it asks you to be with your body for how it moves, as opposed to what it could look like, pushing against wellness industries which commodify self depreciation. Do you have info for folks who would be interested in joining an upcoming walk?

T
Hahah, yup. I love it. Subversive is right. It’s opting out of the game. And it’s not even intentional but everything is informed by that thought. By this clear understanding. So I win before I even begin. Let me ask you this: how would you go about joining a walk? How would you interact with this idea? It’s so open source and part of my curiosity lies in understanding how to even wrap my head around it. It’ll show itself in the final hour I’m sure but I’m a curious cat.

SA
There’s so much agency in this!! It is truly boundaryless and is able to cross borders and work horizontally on so many levels. I’m thinking about my parents who take walks every night after dinner & early Saturday morning walks to meet friends for coffee. And all of these people could essentially come together or be part of one larger project, wow! 

T
I love that!! I think it’s something that will be informed by the people and thus another stage of it will take place. One large conversation if you will.

SA
The fleshing out of a blueprint! So excited for this & for you & for what is to come.
As we reach the end of this conversation, 1. How does your energy feel right now, can you describe in 3 words? And 2. If you were to collaborate with 5 artists on a future walking club soundtrack, who would they be?

T
Power, light, immense gratitude. 

5 artists to work with on future walking club soundtrack: Jay-Z, I love his voice, My Mother & Father, I’d want to tape a conversation of a day in their lives. Dev Hynes is a master. It’d be fun to work with him in this space, It’d be sick to have Marcos Valle soundtrack my walk and document the entire thing. Hmm, I like that idea lol. Herbie Hancock too!

Theo Martins founded Good Posture in 2014 as an outlet to channel his various interests, emphasizing his relationship between music, products, furniture and Art. The Good Posture record label, which re-launched in 2020 serves as a platform for Martins and various artists from around the world.

Martins launched Cereal & Such in 2016, initially launching as a cereal bar and now functioning as a cereal & product company, with “Cinnamon Squares” as it’s signature cereal. It’s output, like Posture, is a continuous stream of ideas, collaborations and music. 

Dreaming Into Action with Annika Hansteen-Izora

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Annika, I’m so happy I get to speak to you today! 

A
I’m so excitedddddd :))) Love y’alls work and just really hype to be a part of this! 

SA
Can you describe your energy right now in 5 words? 

A
Hmmm….floating, cognizant, shifting, open, dancing

SA
I feel honoured that I get to float and be open with you today. I was so struck by one of your recent on the notion of communal dreaming, and how you so eloquently articulated the importance of making space to dream and to dream together. I grew up in Australia in an abusive household. From the ages of 15 – 20, every night before I went to bed I would dream about living in New York. When I was 22, I moved to Brooklyn which was the start of a more intentional healing journey for me. The idea that a radical imagination can set us free is something I hold so close to my heart as it was my very experience. When did you start thinking about the importance of dreaming? And can you speak more to dreaming as a way to sway against escapism? 

A
Mmm…all of this. Thank you for sharing that with me. I’m also very much in the same space – that radical imagination is something that sets us free. I’ve always been a very dreamy, introverted person. I would say my dreaming began out of child wonder, but as I grew older, it became a coping mechanism. I grew up across Palo Alto, CA the suburbs of Sacramento, CA, and Portland, OR – all very white spaces, where I was often one of the only Black people in the class. And that led to loneliness and isolation. Dreaming was a way that I could move out of the space that I was in. Out of that curiosity, I started reading more works by Black authors, and started seeing and absorbing the work of people like Octavia Butler, artists and theorists that were dreaming of worlds that existed outside of white imagination. That started to water the seeds that dreaming was something beyond what we might conceive of as individualist retreat. I started to think of dreaming that could pull me towards other people – and to create something outside of what we’ve been given by colonial ways of thinking. For me, over the past years, I’ve moved towards this idea of communal dreaming. Dreaming has always been a space from which I’ve imagined new ways of being, for myself and those around me, but when I keep those dreams to myself, they only remain in the corners of my imagination. As someone that’s struggled with recurring depression for years, I often go inward, and my dreams collect beside me. When I began talking about my dreams with my loved ones, with my friends and homies, they often reminded me, “That is a beautiful dream, and we can make it true. It can be true, I believe in this, we could support and build this together.” I was able to move away from the escapism that my dreaming can sometimes lead to by talking about it with others, from holding an intimate space for dreaming with others. 

SA
The ways that our colonist conditioning has squashed our childlike capacity to be imaginative is, I think, a very real and intentional violence. It’s so incredible that you have been able to foster a space to speak a lot of what you are dreaming about into existence. And I think there is so much to say about the science behind things like manifestation. There is a general cynicism I’ve observed, though, when it comes to manifesting and dreaming, do you think that is another symptom of the structures that we occupy and an internalization of a conceived loss of power? 

A
Yes, absolutely. I would say that we have to even think about what we think of as dreaming being something we have to intentionally question, to think about how dreaming may be conceived through a colonial white imagination. Why is it in so many circles, dreaming is thought of as frivolous, individualistic, escapist? As something that is running from reality? I think that’s something that a colonial white imagination is trying to teach us, that dreaming means a rejection of what is, of logic, normality. When so much of dreaming stretches far beyond it. I wonder about how dreaming has been commodified, like we’ve seen in some cases of self care. Self care is a radical practice, that’s been articulated by so many Black, queer, disabled, trans and women communities as something that is critical. Over time, self care has been commodified into green smoothies and bath bombs. I think about how that has happened to dreaming. To conceive as dreaming as an escape is to reject its roots, which is in imagining outside of the confines we’ve been handed. Dreaming is a way to think of new spaces to create, grow in love in, take care of each other in. It can be a way that we can create power, redefine what power is. I think we all just need to think about the ways we define what dreaming is, if we’ve ever conceived of what is meant to dream alongside others. 

SA
“The American dream” comes to mind. The colonial ways in which we’re encouraged to dream and imagine but still within a structure, still only to maintain the status quo. 

So, essentially, you’re encouraging a type of imagining the world that pushes back on this hierarchies, reorganizes and resees. I want to uplift this as something sooooooo subversive. Especially in a place like America, where routine is encouraged and spirituality is considered as this abstract thing – imagination really sets the foundations for a way of being in the world that completely goes against the grain.

How can we move from dreaming in a way that’s immaterial to materializing the wonders that we imagine? How do we make sure that communal dreaming is not an abstract, intangible action but something that drives real solutions?

A
This is such a beautiful question. I’m mulling over it, because it’s popping off so many thoughts for me.

I have multiple answers to this. I think one part is in recognizing that dreaming can come from spaces of lushness, pleasure, and wonder. Dreaming can also come from spaces of deep grief, and deep rage. I think about what Octavia Butler said about dreaming. She said dreaming is a way “to give warning when we see ourselves drifting in dangerous directions.” I think one part of moving communal dreaming away from the abstract is holding the multiple realities that dreaming can come from. That makes me think on how we are actually creating spaces to dream. Are we showing up for each other to provide the care that gives us the capacity to dream? What gives us the freedom to even dream about realities beyond what we’re currently in, and can that be a space to explore communal care? I think dreaming is very, very in hand with providing care for one another. For making sure our needs are met so that we feel safe, and in giving space to be emotionally and spiritually valued and heard. I’d ask us to think about how we’re creating actions to support each other’s capacity to dream, and spaces to share dreams. That can happen through many different facets. A book critique with one another is space to dream, making dinner for a friend is creating space to dream, creating gardens, creating mutual aid organizations to support our communities. If dreaming is to move towards action, then we need to care for each other in ways that even allow that dream to be said. 

SA
My heart is so full! I’m thinking of prayer circles and about something as simple as a dream circle. It’s such an easy yet subversive practice and you’re right, it does involve a lot of intentionality and care. 

How do we encourage those around us to be active dreamers without coming off as people with their heads in the clouds? The phrase “dream a little” can be so hard to even imagine as people who have been so conditioned to not push past the corners of their own imaginations. 

A
I think meditating on dreaming as a form of action, as a method of study. I think encouraging each other to see those who have shown dreaming is a form of action. Octavia Butler, Audre Lorde, Alice Walker, Marsha P. Johnson, are all Black artists, theorists, activists, that refer to dreaming as a way to move past the constraints they’ve been given. They all then showed up to their dreams with action, by creating art, supporting their communities, providing critique, leading movements. 

I also think it’s important to note that dreaming can be thought of in terms of radical societal shifts. It can also be held as the transformation of ourselves, our relationships. We can think of dreaming as our own capacity to change. It was a dream, of a younger me, to be able to write, to explore and hold my queerness. And over time, that came true. With support from other dreamers, friends, around me. 

I think we really need to sit with, and show up for, what we mean when we say radical dreaming, what other activists, artists, and theorists have meant when they say that. Often-times, I see ‘radical’ placed in front of a phrase (compassion, community, tenderness, etc.), without explanation or example of what is inherently radical about it. I think dreaming has shown itself to be radical across time to shift the entire world, through policies, relationships, collectives, by showing up through action. I think to be an active dreamer requires a responsibility to think of how dreaming has been used radically in the past, and how dreaming can show up with real action. 

SA
One of my favorite quotes is by Arundhati Roy where she writes…. “Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.” 

Thank you, Annika. So much of what you shared is really helping me imagine and conceptualize tangible ways of being in the world and creating new worlds. And I absolutely agree that it is important to name and explain, because another tactic of the status quo is to not provide those explanations so to keep things abstract and unreachable.

As we come to an end, I want to ask you, what are some key resources, be it audio, visual, texts, that have really helped you foster and nourish the move towards communal dreaming? You’ve listed brilliant Black writers and theorists, I’m wondering if there are other specific pieces of art that you hold close in this practice?

A
Thank you so much Prinita for this conversation. Heart is feeling so full. 

There are sooo many dreamers that have inspired me to think and imagine new worlds. 

The music of , , , people that are creating entirely new worlds and soundscapes through their music. I’m also currently reading Glitch Feminism, by Legacy Russell, who brilliantly is exploring the ways that the digital creates room to explore expansive identities. The Care Manifesto, by the Care Collective, is a brilliant piece that really has us consider the political movement behind caring for one another. I also love the artwork of Teresa Chromati, and Tschabalala Self, who make new worlds out of their pieces. Activation Residency, a Black trans led residency that holds respite for revolution retreats. There are endless others, but those are some spaces where I’m being nourished to dream. 

On the Visual Appropriation and Erasure of Lower Caste Histories with Khushboo Gulati

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Hi Khushboo!! I’m so grateful to be speaking with you. How is your spirit feeling this evening?

K
Hello! My spirit has been ruminating this evening ~ been sitting with my thoughts, letting myself flow and create! How is your spirit? And also excited to be here and in dialogue with you! 

SA
So glad to hear that you’ve been able to have what sounds like a fluid and restful day. I think this retrograde combined with the new moon energy has been pretty heavy for me personally, I’m looking forward to spending the next few days in rest and quiet contemplation. Can you speak a little about your practice with me – if you can even generalize. You are someone who is so multidisciplinary, multi skilled + multitalented – so maybe, how do you define the art that you create if you were to narrow it down?

K
I hear you! These last few days have felt chaotic energetically so I have been resting more and my dreams have been very amplified! 

Yes! Thank you for seeing me! My creations engage with my journeys of flesh and spirit, time(less-ness), flower splendor, the elements, challenging values and narratives of oppression, rewriting internal and external narratives, transformation, detangling pain, my dreams, and igniting wonder. My art practice is a reflection of my healing practice. My practice is rooted in embodiment and sensorial activation and is reflective of my own process of self-excavation and evolutions into my deepest selves. My process is shaped by ritual, elemental reverence, stillness and movement, collaborations with qtbipoc community, liberatory politics, and my intuition! Is this narrowed down enough haha?

SA
So so so beautiful. One thing about your art practice that really drew me in is how tangibly sacred your process is. And how willing you are to offer that with the world. I also really love this notion of sensorial activation. I’ve only recently come back to my body, I’m still calling bits of myself back, and your work is so palpable while also speaking to inner healing. 

Your tattoo work is especially something that struck me – when did you get into tattooing and how did you begin to foster the process of channeling inner vibrations through the tattoos? What does that look like when you are giving someone else a tattoo?

K
Thank you for your affirmations! I appreciate hearing that ~ Sensorial activations in my work came from my own healing work. It brings me closer to my spirit and invites a deeper connection to my body. My art has been a sanctuary to create new worlds that reflect my visions, desires, and pleasures and invite different ways of feeling, being, and seeing from what is taught to us or socialized. The process of calling ourselves back into our bodies and spirits is definitely a nonlinear and expansive ongoing process that takes new form as we grow, unlearn and relearn and revel in the unique and magical songs of the self! My tattoo work has definitely been an expression of sensorial activation, as a somatic healing practice that bridges and expands mind, body, heart, and spirit! I started learning how to tattoo in 2016 from my friend Sookie, the night I graduated from college, which was a really symbolic moment of moving away from this academic logical world to this sensorial, intuitive, and creative world. I was dreaming a lot about tattooing myself months before this night but was not consciously acting on these visions. I feel like I have been connected to this practice in various forms (and in training) since I was a kid. I was always the kid drawing on other people in class with my inky ballpoint pen, drawn to adornment, was raised in a household that was visually stimulating with Indian wall hangings and embroideries my mom decorated the house with that I was subconsciously studying. I started to do mehndi/henna for myself and my community and felt really connected to that energy exchange and ritual. When I close my eyes I see patterns, fractals and intricate images constantly. I also feel that having a dance practice growing up shaped my understanding of the rhythms of the body and how it moves, which informs how I tattoo. Decorating the body with sacred adornment has been so powerful for me as a queer non-binary person in defining myself on my own terms and celebrating the vibrances that I feel within! I also feel that what I have learned from organizing has informed my practice of tattooing as a political act of honoring and celebrating the layers, stories, and histories that belong to the communities I tattoo! I transitioned to learning how to use the machine last year with the help of community, Mirza and Jaime. Honoring my teachers in this work is so important to me! I am self taught and community taught!

My tattoo practice is rooted in amplifying the autonomy of and connection to our bodies, hearts, and spirits, inviting transformation and deeper self-awareness. Each session is a sensorial ceremony to mark the flesh with symbols soaked in intentions and prayer, acting as a powerful tool to reclaim the body, challenge fear, projections, expectations and the socializations of our bodies. My client and I will talk about their meanings and what it brings up for them over email. I never share my flash sheets online to protect my work and because they are also so deeply personal and reflections of my spiritual journeys and lessons. When the client arrives at my studio, we usually check in about how we are both doing and I go through what the tattoo process will look like. I ask their body boundaries, communicate with them how I will be working on their body/where I will be placing pressure, reminding them we can move with this process in ways that support them and their comfortability with breaks and breaths. 

Once the image is placed, I ask that we take 3 deep cavernous grounding breaths and to set an intention with this tattoo. I ask what they would like to affirm, invite, celebrate, or release with this piece and I set an intention as well. After that process to invite presence we begin the process. Tattooing different parts of the body can bring up a lot of emotion and energy, so I want to make sure to hold space for this and encourage the client to listen to the messages of what is coming up! There is never any rush with my sessions, I do not like to work with that energy because it disrupts my process and channeling. Because I am a Gemini, I love to ask questions and I will usually talk with my client (to whatever extent they want to share) about their journeys, how they flow through this world, what they creating and dreaming about, what they want to transform, their ancestral histories, their favorite time of day, etc! 

SA
Wow Khushboo, I am so moved by how deeply intentional and thoughtful your process around and within tattooing is. The reverence you have for this palpable energetic exchange, the ways that you’re making room for lineages and hundreds of years of histories – it’s such a holistic approach to embodiment and meaning making.

I know for me, I’ve had to really slow down when considering who I will approach for my next tattoo because I do want to be in a space where my body is honored and my spirit is seen. It’s so comforting and exhilarating to know that you’re really digging deep and combining gentleness and interrogation into your tattoo work. 

I want to talk to you about a recent trend that I’ve been observing that is the tattooing of markings that resemble that worn traditionally by Dalit, Adivasi and other ‘lower caste’ communities. I only have recently begun learning about the ancestral histories behind these types of markings and it’s concerning that there is this rising trend where both South Asians and non South Asians are pulling from communities that have been historically discriminated against without context. What have you been thinking about this?

K
The energy exchange of tattooing is so vulnerable and intimate, it makes sense to want to work with an artist that moves with community care and trauma-informed approaches. For me, this work is not just transactional or commercial, it is so process oriented and invites so many worlds of flesh and spirit. Tattoo artists must consider who is coming into their space, what they are bringing, and how to honor their clients as well as themselves. This has also meant making visual vocabularies that are outside Brahmanical and white imaginations. Tattooing, in my approach, is a form of care work of holding space, deep listening to the body, energy, and the client, and supporting the client in activating their agency through this process. 

Upper caste people have been appropriating and taking from caste oppressed communities since the inception of the caste system—from their literal labor, their cultural practices, to their humanity. This dynamic of upper caste people appropriating tattoos that come from oppressed caste communities is a very colonial dynamic and peak casteism. The ease through which upper caste people appropriate comes from caste privilege and this domination mentality/psyche of entitlement, lack of self-awareness, disconnection from the self and their positionality, and not knowing the vast histories of oppressed caste communities. This dynamic is also coupled with capitalism and patriarchy, where upper caste people reduce tattoo histories and vocabularies from oppressed caste people down to just aesthetics. This dynamic is extremely harmful and violent, and perpetuates caste supremacy. It destroys the sacred! I was reading from Akademi magazine that “Savarna history is a history of erasure.” Appropriation feeds anti-indigenous ideologies and is another form of colonization of oppressed caste communities. By appropriating these visual languages, upper caste people are erasing the contributions, intellectual+creative labor, imaginations, and agency of the original practitioners and wearers of these tattoos. Upper caste people can adorn themselves with these appropriated symbols without consequences and receive praise and adoration, while oppressed caste bodies are hurt, policed, controlled, and dehumanized. This appropriation is extremely disrespectful and harmful in a time of Hindu fascism, rampant caste violence, and ongoing labor exploitation of oppressed caste communities, when oppressed caste communities have shaped everything without receiving credit or dignity. They have created the visual expressions and cultures of South Asia and we have to honor them and their artistries. 

Upper caste tattoo artists and non-South Asian artists have a responsibility to practice integrity by honoring and respecting the boundaries and practices of oppressed caste communities. Tattoo artists must incorporate deep research into their practices and integrate anti-caste work into our practices. To be transparent, I am caste privileged, making it an even greater responsibility to challenge this casteist appropriation and actively listen to and support Dalit, Bahujan and Adivasi liberation movements. 

Something I have noticed is that a lot of upper caste people in the diaspora will look to aesthetics as an entry point into understanding their identities, but will not think about the artisans and makers behind these crafts, textiles, embroideries, etc. It is in this process that the meanings, intentions, and histories of oppressed caste people get commodified and decontextualized. The irony is that I will see upper caste tattoo artists and people talk about appropriation of their ~culture~ by white people but will not even mention how they are replicating the same dynamic through casteism. Another layer to this is that many upper caste people’s perception of their culture has been shaped by Brahmanism and North Indian Hindu upper caste hegemony, which is inherently violent and problematic. Additionally, while simultaneously taking from Dalit, Bahujan, Adivasi visual practices, upper caste people and non-South Asians are romanticizing Southasianness and Hindu imageries with tattoos. This is deeply dangerous as well because of how Hinduism is also appropriated from oppressed caste people and has caste supremacy and brahmanical patriarchy written into its scriptures. The construction of Hindusim as a peaceful, romanticized religion comes from upper caste Hindu elites utiltizing European historiography of India as this mystical peaceful land. Hinduism has been used as a tool for nationalism, fascism, and upholding upper caste ideals. Brahmanism/Hinduism & caste supremacy is a construction by upper caste elites to create systems that subordinate, exploit, and control oppressed caste communities and represent Indian society as a monolith. It was framed as a holy and sacred structure to justify its existence and to maintain its power so deep, deep in the psyche of South Asia and South Asian diasporas. The gravity of this appropriation of tattoo languages by upper caste people is manipulative, immense and wrong by how much trauma and damage casteism has caused and continues to create. These acts are a form of spiritual and political warfare. Nothing is separate from history. Tattoos are political, the body is political, it is the site of imagination and possibilities. It is a reflection of the social, political, emotional, spiritual, psychological and historical ecosystems, circumstances, and journeys they come from. One cannot detach tattoos from history and dynamics of power. 

SA
This is such an in depth interrogation of the violence that exists within so much of South Asian caste culture. Even within the system of yoga, there’s so much space made to critique the west’s appropriation of the practice, and yet so many South Asians are unwilling to address how the practice itself has its roots in violence against lower caste communities. 

Now especially as we are experiencing the peak of Hindu fascism, it’s so interesting how platforms like Instagram get used to proliferate these images of South Asianness funnelled through ~experimental village-esque~ tattoos. It’s so crucial for us to really think about how we are playing into the mass spiritual, institutional and physical erasure of lower caste and historically marginalized South Asian communities. We absolutely need to start interrogating the ways we perform our identities – even more so if we feel like we don’t have a connection to caste dynamics, because that is usually how and why we become so complacent with the romanticization of ‘South Asianness!’ I want to delve so much deeper but I want to be mindful of your time, to end – do you have any resources that you might want to share for folks who are interested in learning more about the caste histories and visual languages of tattooing? And what advice would you give for those who maybe already have markings on their bodies that they weren’t super intentional about? 

K
Yes caste is everywhere and engrained in every facet of life, making it even more important to constantly be interrogating everything we have learned about South Asia and South Asianness. I want to give thanks to the Dalit, Bahujan, Adivasi and Muslim activists, scholars, artists, paradigm shifters that I have learned all this information from.

I remember when I was first researching tattoo history in India it was hard to find comprehensive information and now I realize this is because of Brahmanism. I have been learning from Dalit feminists, that this is the savarna washing of history with casteism denying and erasing oppressed communities and their histories and the resources to wholly document their vastness. When I did find articles there was barely mention of caste dynamics and written in condescending or voyeuristic tones. My learning has come from caste oppressed activists, artists, and culture workers on instagrams and thru online articles. B.R. Ambedkar, brilliant Dalit visionary and leader talked about building a counter culture to Hinduism & caste supremacy. This means making sure our tattoo practice feeds a culture that is working towards liberation of oppressed caste communities. Our tattoo practice must nourish a counter culture that honors and encourages healing, transformation, harmony, inner work, accountability, action, communication, research, pleasure, joy and authenticity. 

As I have learned from Ambedkar and other Dalit activists, true allyship means to abolish caste and divest from Hinduism. There is nothing to salvage or reform about institutionalized injustice! 

For deeper learning, there are so many resources online you can find through the Equality Labs page—they have a list of book recs. I would recommend reading The Annihilation of Caste by B.R. Ambedkar, Debrahmanising History by Braj Ranjan Mani, books by Kancha Ililah, articles by Thenmozhi Soundararajan, to name a few. Follow the pages of Dalit, Bahujan, and Adivasi artists+ activists. Some wonderful pages to follow– @, @, @, @, @sharminultra, @gracebanu, @ranaayuub, Huma Dar, Yalini Dream, @, @, @, @ and sooo many more. 

Upper caste people must challenge casteism in their families and caste network! As Dalit feminists have stated, the burden should not fall on Dalit people to fight Brahmanical patriarchy and caste apartheid—this is an upper caste creation and upper caste problem. Upper caste people must listen and surrender to Dalit, Bahujan, and Adivasi leadership, liberation and communities. Organize with folks committed to caste liberation, find an Ambedkarite organization! Upper caste people must engage in deep inner work by taking responsibility for the harm our ancestors have caused and were complicit in. This is healing the conscious, subconscious, and conscious where casteism resides. This is healing and taking responsibility for your bloodline, of reprogramming, dismantling, and interrupting toxic and violent belief systems and behaviors. Because caste is so embedded in our relationships and psyches, it is critical to heal how we build with one another. 

Creating a connection to the self outside of caste supremacy requires us to be creative and open our hearts. We must remember that we have the capacity to grow into other forms of knowing and connection, especially knowings that center liberation. We must remember that we can shapeshift and transform. We can create new worlds, traditions and rituals that affirm life. We have to build relationships outside of assigned illusions of caste supremacy and invite a deeper more radical loving. To the folks who have markings on their bodies that were not very intentional, I would say let this be a learning moment to move with deeper intention, self-interrogation, and research. Let this be a reminder to interrupt casteism and caste apartheid everywhere. May this be a reminder to commit to a lifelong journey of undoing the violent legacies of Brahmanism. May this be a reminder to bring forth the worlds envisioned by caste oppressed communities. May this be a wake up call to fight for the dignity, humanity, autonomy, justice and healing for oppressed caste communities. May this be a reminder of the reparations upper caste people owe oppressed caste people. May this invite you to rewrite history so that the same cycles of history and hatred are not repeated.

is a multi-disciplinary artist and designer born and raised on Tongva Land (Los Angeles). Their creations engage with the journeys of their flesh/spirit, time/less-ness, ritual, flower splendor, the elements, challenging values of oppression, embodiment, rewriting internal & external narratives, detangling pain, dreams, and igniting wonder. They channel through painting, tattooing, graphic design, sensation activation + curation, textiles, installations, and dance, creating lush worlds around saturated loving, healing and existing… new ways of flowing, being, seeing, connecting. Their work is guided by shifting paradigms, transformation, metaphysical spiritual exploration, intuition, creating autonomous affirming spaces that center justice, liberation, love.

Their practice has been an ever flowing journey of constant learning, flowering since 2010. They are interested in reflecting the deep connections between the personal, political, and spiritual. Their work has been and is shaped + informed by decolonization and debrahmanization, anti-capitalist anti-racist organizing, abolition, ending caste apartheid & Islamophobia, Black liberation, queer and trans liberation work, disability justice frameworks, & healing+spiritual justice work~

 

Social Media, The Spirit and Surveillance Technologies with Olivia McKayla Ross

Posted on by studioananda_vvxgqu

SA
Olivia, I’m so honoured to be sharing this space with you this evening. How are you feeling and how is NYC treating you?

O
Hiiii! Doing okay! Haven’t been outside much this time (since March) so I’ve been getting to know my neighborhood.

SA
Where in New York are you? I was living in Brooklyn for three years and overstayed my visa, I actually just returned back to Australia a month ago and I am missing it immensely.

O
Oh no! 🙁 I hope you can return soon (and that it’ll be safer to do so haha). I live in Southeast Queens, a few minutes outside of Jamaica. I was raised there, but I was living in New Hampshire for months at time for high school. 

SA
When did you become interested in digital technologies as an art form? 

O
Thinking back, it’s kind of what I always used it for? I learned to code before I hit puberty, so my perspective on the internet has always been really clear. You know the wizard behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz? It was as if I always knew he was there, so there wasn’t any ~magic~ or uncertainty about what the technology I was using was. Looking back, I think the moments where I was doing all my important teenage identity formation were mostly online, but I always had a small sense of agency the whole time. 

When I first started out coding, I liked graphics programming the best because you could see the results very obviously! I’m still not that interested in like, database stuff. I used to send my friends in highschool really weird web pages that I made, and then someone told me that was “art”. To me, it was just pranks and jokes at first. 

SA
I love this Wizard of Oz metaphor. Coding is such an impressive and important skill – it sounds like you really did have a formulated understanding on what was behind the veil. Can you speak a bit about your practice as a cyber doula?

O
Yeah! That title came to be during BUFU’s WYFY summer school in 2019. I was teaching a class there on my 18th birthday that was trying to remap cyberfeminist principles to the lived experiences of queer and trans people of color. I was thinking a lot about the experiences I had growing up online and how they changed the way I understand myself and the world around me. Virtual life, while it can be a gateway to self-determination and freer expressions, is a metaphor that scares me a lot, sometimes. 

People talk about this concept of “magic circles” where a group of people decide on rules from behaving in a space and kind of like… create a second reality for themselves. Sometimes that looks like a Dungeons and Dragons game, or a funeral, or a classroom. Oftentimes in society, we make these magic circles so that we can cope with what’s outside the circle—the biggest one is human society itself, right? We crafted this second reality to cope with “wilderness.” And that’s caused a lot of issues in the world, you know—people are disconnected from the earth and it’s difficult for us to understand on a soul-level the effects our actions have on the rest of our reality. I think the second reality cyberspace creates can be really dangerous and harmful, not because of anything inherently wrong with electronics, but because the rules that govern behaviour in this space are non consensual. So, I was spiraling about that all summer. And when I taught this class I couldn’t help but think, I wish we could have an intervention. Because again, there’s nothing inherently terrible about electricity and transistors and diodes and stuff are really super cool. But we have all of this metaphor organizing how we understand them– this is a “laptop,” this is a “desktop,” this is a “browser,” this is a “computer file”… a lot of which come straight from 80s Western office culture, that it’s really hard to see what’s actually going on. All the abstraction obfuscates power. Which the general public was okay with for a bit, because the magic circle helps you not be afraid of what’s outside. But now it’s 2020 and we’re scared of authoritarianism and we have a right to say “gosh, what if my phone’s listening to my conversations,” but questioning those things is super scary. So the dream of a cyber doula really came out of wanting to hold someone else’s hand through that scary awakening phase, when they realize they don’t know how to navigate their own neighborhood without Google maps, or if they become distressed by advertisements on Instagram promoting a lifestyle they left behind years ago. 

Wow that was a word vomit hahahaha

SA
I was just having a conversation with my friend this weekend about how, as you said, inherently these technologies aren’t bad, but how do you think we are supposed to move through social media, for example, as a portal that mediatizes, securitizes and surveils us while also offering new tools that help us understand ourselves and our spirits better? For example, the connection I have with my own spirit has been nurtured through resources I’ve found through healers on Instagram. But I also know that the app itself is recording my every move on it, so I become hesitant to engage too deeply with social media as a tool for healing. Is this something you think about? Do you have ideas on moving through this?


O
I’ve thought about this a lot! I feel like my biggest issue with social media is there aren’t enough enthusiastic “Yes!” moments of consent. Everytime Mark Zuckerberg asks me if I’m okay with something I kind of like… shrug my shoulders and go yeah okay if you really need to. It’s a really extractive relationship that depends on your ignorance to continue, so it’s hard to not feel a little icky when you start to lose some of that ignorance. I never finished The Matrix after they revealed everyone was plugged into machines, I totally turned it off because I was like “I can’t watch this during quarantine I’ll lose my head.” So it’s hard. 

The way I’ve thought about balancing this has mostly revolved around my own personal boundaries, but also there’s a bit of playfulness. Recently I’ve been testing this thing where I “put my FBI agent to work” essentially, by forcefully trying to get my social media algorithm to show me certain things. There’s a part of social media that really works, mostly because of social engineering, to either boost or destroy self esteem. I’ve been wondering recently, when you have historically underloved populations of people, how can we harness the dopamine hit of the “like” to redistribute some care to others, digitally? Is that even a real thing? I’m not sure. 

It’s also been really good for me to be super specific about what my social media accounts are for as well. Like, I don’t share certain information, or I try not to? I’m not as formulaic about it as it sounds when I describe it, it’s mostly a form of compartmentalization that I’ve noticed I do naturally. Living digitally with so many different accounts, it’s really easy to fragment yourself into chunks that way. Which can be super disturbing, but also really powerful in a technology of the fugitive kinda way. Sneaking around, lol. 

SA
Yes totally. I’ve been thinking a lot about this compartmentalization as well. As Studio Ānanda took off, I was starting to feel a little encroached upon with my personal account – I guess I wasn’t used to having that many eyes on my work. I also make visual art and have a separate account for that & I was feeling entirely disconnected, paranoid almost, about how my multiple personalities may present themselves. Becoming specific + establishing those boundaries is what allowed me to regain sanity and a sense of control over my various online identities.

I actually first encountered your work through your collaborative project “I Pretend I Do Not See It,” which you worked on with a brilliant mutual friend, Rin. This discussion that you were having about systems of guilt and paranoia that are coerced through online surveillance capitalism really drew me in. How can we use online spaces to navigate both the guilt and paranoia that comes with being a public persona?

O
I feel this question really deeply! Both Rin and Liz are geniuses and I love working with them. I feel like when it comes to the public arena of online, you notice this like…almost puritanical rituals of moral maintenance, and cycles of shame. Especially for marginalized identities, I think capitalism survives on us feeling shame and exchanging capital to relieve that shame — which gets beefed up when surveillance capitalism gets involved, because there’s people paid to use machines to figure out where your tenderest parts are. Like what’s really gonna get you to click. 

It doesn’t want us to live in balance, because living in extremes is where the profit comes in. So what’s better is if you can engineer a self-punishing system. I think about Instagram in this context, because it’s so image-focused, it definitely operates in this shame/fantasy/attention economy. 

I’m really wary of conversations that get too deep into fear, concerning social media. Ultimately I’m really interested in building power and resiliency in my communities, and I feel like so much of critical tech education focuses on really alarmist, urgent language? I just can’t vibe with it. Institutions of fear and paranoia are white supremacist institutions. 

I totally didn’t answer the question OMG lol 

SA
Everything you just said really shook me up!!! I think I really needed to hear that — institutions of fear and paranoia are white supremacist institutions. Because it’s true, the way we commit to squashing ourselves, contorting ourselves to become smaller online is all based on a colonist way of thinking that basically reaffirms the status quo in that, people on the margins who use digital technologies to feel through and express themselves end up in cycles of shame for ‘taking up too much online space’. Wow, thank you for reiterating that…

O
It’s such a big deal! And so much energy gets put into convincing people that’s not happening, in a really weird neoliberal “up-by-your-bootstraps” way. Like, “if you did this or that, you wouldn’t feel this way online” when in reality, fascism depends on you feeling this way online. Victim blaming in the extreme lol

SA
Wow Olivia – you are really helping me understand these spaces in completely different, nuanced ways & I thank you so much for all that you offer to us!! 

Before we wrap up, what are a couple of things that are helping you stay grounded over the past few months – maybe things you’re reading, listening to, eating, dancing to?

O
I’ve been taking a lot of time these last few months to write in a way I never really have before. Early on in quarantine, I was scared to journal because I was like, “No way, I don’t wanna bear witness to my own thoughts right now, that’s probably just as triggering as what’s going on outside…” But then my body slowly got used to the shock of isolation and I started needing that outlet. I’ve also been reading a lot of fanfiction lol I used to joke (but I lowkey believe it) that my art practice is inspired by how much fanfiction I read and reading tarot cards for my friends. I just like the idea of not being afraid to write new dialogues, make up new stories. Cyberspace really needs new metaphors, you know? So I’ve been trying to embrace this teenage girl technopraxis because I think she really understands something.

Aaand, for books I’ve been reading…. Jamaica Kincaid. Also, opening my Fred Moten pdf, reading a paragraph and then closing it every couple of weeks.